Fergie TEF missfire at idle

[MrNoo]

Id describe it as hunting

My thoughts air leak . Bad injector . Pump element . Guevenour

Quite correct Tom, took the pump off and took it to local pump specialist, he stripped it yesterday, said all the elements are very worn in it, reckoned it had done a lot of work in it's time, so will re-build it with fresh seals etc for £280, should be ready end of next week. So hopefully that should sort it and it should then run like a little sewing machine!!

 

[tomlad]

Ive a diesel been in pieces for way too long bought the engine kit its pump should get rebuilt id expected that sort of figure ur doing it right captain

 

[Right-arm fast]

Sorry didn't see the video just thought it was missing. It's definitely hunting. But if the plunger and barrels were worn that badly to make it hunt I would have expected it to be a little difficult to start due to back leakage. I think it's more likely to be a governor issue. If idle speed is too low that will make it hunt.

 

[MrNoo]

Sorry didn't see the video just thought it was missing. It's definitely hunting. But if the plunger and barrels were worn that badly to make it hunt I would have expected it to be a little difficult to start due to back leakage. I think it's more likely to be a governor issue. If idle speed is too low that will make it hunt.

Yes, it starts fine. Governor works on vacuum, have re bushed both the venturi and the idle spring plunger on the end of the pump so no air leakage there. I set it up as the book rpm on the pto shaft, tried a fast idle and still no joy. So it is a process of elimination I am going through now. Injectors were done, pump being done, so will see how she runs after the pump rebuild. If it's the same then I shall have a look at cam timing (am certain this is spot on though), compression and prob take the head off to be sure I didn't tweak a valve whilst setting the decompressor up. Will also check valve lift with a dial gauge as I have heard sometimes a worn cam lobe can/could cause a similar issue.

 

[MrNoo]

So an update….! Pump back today from being re-built, bolted it on, spill timed it up and off we go. It does not hunt now but it does knock like hell and smokes too, have done the spill timing 4 times and it is spot on, it starts fine but knocks, any ideas?? Before I get Thick Farmer and his Swan Vestas!!
I think I will take the head and front axle off, get the dial gauge on it at TDC, double check the cam timing.

 

[Right-arm fast]

Just checking.....Pump drive in correct place timing wise? Setting the pump to the right timing marks on the engine if there are more than one set. Did you take the delivery valve out of no1 pumping element to spill time? Does it knock on all cylinders. Suggest slackening injector pipe nuts to isolate knock. injection Timing may be to advanced could turn the pump whilst running if possible to retard timing to check......

 

[Mursal]

That's a pity .........
But the valve timing wasn't causing a knock before the pump went on holidays?

Just check that you're cutting the fuel off on the upward stroke of the pump rather than the downward stroke. Seem to remember you could cut the fuel off on the downward stroke as well.
Take the rocker cover off, and check the timing marks, just in case you have a few.
Number four will have both valves open roughly the same amount when one is firing, as you already know.

@Thick Farmer is away getting the camera on the phone fixed, apparently he has a punter for the hedge cutter ............

 

[MrNoo]

Just checking.....Pump drive in correct place timing wise? Setting the pump to the right timing marks on the engine if there are more than one set. Did you take the delivery valve out of no1 pumping element to spill time? Does it knock on all cylinders. Suggest slackening injector pipe nuts to isolate knock. injection Timing may be to advanced could turn the pump whilst running if possible to retard timing to check......

Yes, delivery valve out, did try and move the pump whilst engine is running but no obvious improvement. I think it best to whip the head off and front cover and double check it all again. Get a dial gauge on No 1 to ascertain definitive TDC and then go from there.

 

[MrNoo]

That's a pity .........
But the valve timing wasn't causing a knock before the pump went on holidays?

Just check that you're cutting the fuel off on the upward stroke of the pump rather than the downward stroke. Seem to remember you could cut the fuel off on the downward stroke as well.
Take the rocker cover off, and check the timing marks, just in case you have a few.
Number four will have both valves open roughly the same amount when one is firing, as you already know.

@Thick Farmer is away getting the camera on the phone fixed, apparently he has a punter for the hedge cutter ............

No, no knock before. Fuel is being cut off on upward stroke, have spill timed it 4 times and still the same. I will get to the bottom of it eventually!!

 

[Mursal]

If you could get the lend of another injector pump ..............

 

[MrNoo]

If you could get the lend of another injector pump ..............

Not sure my GF would be too pleased!!! And beside we are all off to a ploughing match on Sun and she'll be needing hers!! I will prob take my TEA if I dont get the TEF sorted tomorrow.

 

[Mursal]

Would be a pity to strip it out, when it as running so well (hunting a bit) before the pump was sent of. Very strange how the hunting turned into a knock, dont you think?

Can you not talk her round for a swap on Monday/Tuesday, when you get back?
But you probably dont want to disturb her tractor, I know the feeling ............

 

[Ray996]

Not sure my GF would be too pleased!!! And beside we are all off to a ploughing match on Sun and she'll be needing hers!! I will prob take my TEA if I dont get the TEF sorted tomorrow.

Worn timing gear?

 

[Right-arm fast]

Yes, delivery valve out, did try and move the pump whilst engine is running but no obvious improvement. I think it best to whip the head off and front cover and double check it all again. Get a dial gauge on No 1 to ascertain definitive TDC and then go from there.

It's a long shot but have you got the injector pipes going to the right injector and not crossed over on one of them? Are the injectors themselves ok?

 

[MrNoo]

It's a long shot but have you got the injector pipes on the right injector and not crossed over on one of them? Are the injectors ok?

Yes, they can only go on one way and the injectors were done, it was sweet under load before I had the pump done. I have had the front off, double checked the cam timing in relation to TDC and also pump wheel timing marks/dots etc, re done the spill timing while the front cover was off, cranked it over after putting it all back together and still the same, plenty of dark brown/black smoke and it knocks like buggery, I actually think one or two of the big ends have gone. I have contacted a guru who maybe able to help me out, failing that I will strip it all down again, check it all over and re-assemble.

 

[tomlad]

I click like but obviously i dont mate
Very puzzling

 

[Right-arm fast]

Yes, they can only go on one way and the injectors were done, it was sweet under load before I had the pump done. I have had the front off, double checked the cam timing in relation to TDC and also pump wheel timing marks/dots etc, re done the spill timing while the front cover was off, cranked it over after putting it all back together and still the same, plenty of dark brown/black smoke and it knocks like buggery, I actually think one or two of the big ends have gone. I have contacted a guru who maybe able to help me out, failing that I will strip it all down again, check it all over and re-assemble.

Did you not sort the crank bearings?
So by the power of deduction it ran well but hunted. Pump off to fuel injection engineer now doesn't hunt but knocks and smokes. Sounds like there is a new problem with the pump.

 

[Mursal]

Totally agree with @Right-arm fast
If you have oil pressure its not the shells, to much of a coincidence just after fitting the pump.

 

[MrNoo]

All was revealed, whipped the head off and the front cover for the second time today. Cam timing was out by a tooth, I cannot for the life of me understand how this occurred after all it ran fine pre pump refurb (I even did a ploughing match with it) got the re curbed pump back and just bolted it in place, spill timed it and it ran like a bag of spanners. They say pictures speak a thousand words so I will show all. I must have cocked up somewhere along the line.The exhaust valves have been in contact with the pistons……..
So I will whip the valves out and give them a check, maybe lucky and while it's apart I will pop the sump off and drop a shell cap and see if they are ok.

 

[Mursal]

..............
Let us know how you get on