Fert prices and stocking rates

MDL POWERUP

Member
Is it not 1kg creep per ewe? As in split between her lamb crop?? I don’t know, I don’t feed any hard feed after 3 days post lambing until hogg hopper time the following March.
Maybe? Even still it would be 20tonne of feed. Just seems crazy. I would of thought even half of that seemed a lot. Must be very different systems!
 

puppet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
sw scotland
£120 rent per acre divided by 6 = £20/ewe for summer
Vets and meds £10/ewe
Creep for lambs for 16 weeks @ 1kg/day = £50/ewe (assuming 1.5 lambs/ewe)
Ewe rolls @1kg/head for 50 days prior to lambing = £15
Fertiliser = £13
That adds up to £108
Using you £144 - £108 = £36 left over to pay for fuel, labour, fencing, winter grazing, silage, replacement ewes, rams, sheds and bedding (if you use them)...

But I would be intrigued to see your workings?
240 ewes, lambing mostly outside March, April, lambs finished off grass, BPS not included
Rent £120 = £20/ewe
Vet/meds = £7 only vet input to lamb 1 ewe, 2 doses wormer/fluke annually
Lamb creep =£1
Ewe feed = £4 2 tons for trips and twins 4 weeks before lambing around 0.5kg daily plus licks
Fertiliser = £5 34 units straight N per acre
Hay/straw = £2


Happy to be challenged. Your feed costs seem far too high. 30% of our lambs are gone before weaning, 10% here until February/March. Deferred silage ground to graze ewes to scanning time.
 
£120 rent per acre divided by 6 = £20/ewe for summer
Vets and meds £10/ewe
Creep for lambs for 16 weeks @ 1kg/day = £50/ewe (assuming 1.5 lambs/ewe)
Ewe rolls @1kg/head for 50 days prior to lambing = £15
Fertiliser = £13
That adds up to £108
Using you £144 - £108 = £36 left over to pay for fuel, labour, fencing, winter grazing, silage, replacement ewes, rams, sheds and bedding (if you use them)...

But I would be intrigued to see your workings?
£50/ewe for creep???????? mine get 0
 
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
We can't run less stock or use less fertiliser in our system, so we will just keep the stocking rate where it needs to be

The only difference is that I'll have shorter days spreading fertiliser this season as a lot of the 'occasional N' farmers decide this is not their year to apply it, or not apply as much
 

Andrew1983

Member
Location
Black Isle
Just worked out for the price of a load of N I could feed my suckler cows 2kgs/head/day of 16% cake for 150 days 🤔 how many kgs would they actually need to make up for the shortfall in grazing if I only put on half the normal fert or none at all 🤷‍♂️ Can’t be arsed feeding them every day all summer but it might be the only option if fert keeps going up!
 
Just worked out for the price of a load of N I could feed my suckler cows 2kgs/head/day of 16% cake for 150 days 🤔 how many kgs would they actually need to make up for the shortfall in grazing if I only put on half the normal fert or none at all 🤷‍♂️ Can’t be arsed feeding them every day all summer but it might be the only option if fert keeps going up!
Or graze more silage ground and feed straw and concentrate in the winter.

That's partly how it has to be looked at.
I didn't apply any N this autumn as it was very dry here and I didn't think it would give enough extra grass to make sense.
Since it rained grass has bounced, I was thinking this morning that if I'd applied N I'd have attributed the growth to that instead of the growth being natural.

We normally sell silage and hay.
But won't be this year, best left where it is, carry more over to next year and apply less N in 2022.
 

JD-Kid

Member
What is this



dont know what the price would be in the uk here about 10-20 dollars a ha for the product

best efect during lower sunshine hours and cooler temps during long sunshine times plants make there Own
a few days after grazing apply then use with in 3-4 weeks
can have a hang over efect tho so if used with some N lowers that efect or say paddock going to be taken out for crop etc then push that paddock along. before grazed out to be worked up
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Just worked out for the price of a load of N I could feed my suckler cows 2kgs/head/day of 16% cake for 150 days 🤔 how many kgs would they actually need to make up for the shortfall in grazing if I only put on half the normal fert or none at all 🤷‍♂️ Can’t be arsed feeding them every day all summer but it might be the only option if fert keeps going up!

How much are you putting the concentrates in your budget at? Cereals are only going one way with fert where it is, taking concentrates with it.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
How much are you putting the concentrates in your budget at? Cereals are only going one way with fert where it is, taking concentrates with it.
A cousin was wondering about this and came up with that point too; but surely it will depend on what new markets appear as well, won't it?

In the medium to long term, the growing band in Russia will get much, much bigger; same in Canada of course, but Russia is a lot bigger and not as efficient, yet.
 

Andrew1983

Member
Location
Black Isle
How much are you putting the concentrates in your budget at? Cereals are only going one way with fert where it is, taking concentrates with it.
£330/t which I think is about where beef stock cake is at now, by next summer it could obviously be much higher.

Probably best to supplement winter feed this year with something bought in, save as much silage as possible and then as you say graze more silage ground next year. Will probably have to go for 1 big cut and then graze afterwards….. trouble is I rent silage grass for 2 cuts only then the owner takes sheep in for winter…. It didn’t really pay this year, it worked out in the high £20s per bale by time fert, rent an making the stuff. I don’t see there being much straw about next back end either as an alternative…..It’s going to be a rollercoaster!
 

Farmer_Joe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
The North
Its cost me £19.80 over 5 years to put a grass clover ley In. This year's costings , how can that not be a good investment, ok I sell seed as well as farm, but you can't argue against costings whoever says it , I never used nitrogen on the sheep pastures and was quite intesive
Back in the mid 90’s my late father and my brother and I reseeded a fair amount of my farm with mixed lays with white clover included, in the late 2010 we re did some and reseeded more with similar seed types.

I’m a low fert user anyway as I think it’s expensive at 250 only put 1200kg on 20 acres this year, but regardless if fert application the growth this year over the whole farm has been amazing and the clover has been unbelievable,

best thing I’ve done is get stock off as fast as possible, culls gone literally day after weaning from lambs, first lambs away at first sales (I do stores) if next year is a good weather wise I think I could easily use no fert, and the grass have never looked better time of year, just keep rotating stock over fields pre tupping. Running approx 275 ewes over 95 ish acres fairly high up other side of main road goes to moorland, approx 650 ft above sea level in middle of farm( goes higher and lower though!)
 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I would have thought sheep would be quite easy to farm without any bought in concentrates and firtilzer, perhaps a little for conservation and root crops , perhaps I think to much

Some sheep certainly would, or maybe at reduced stocking rates & output.
It’s a balance to make, just the same as judging how much N to put on an arable crop for optimum (not maximum) yield.
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
I would have thought sheep would be quite easy to farm without any bought in concentrates and firtilzer, perhaps a little for conservation and root crops , perhaps I think to much
Depends where you farm! Also you do need conserved forage at some point! Without shutting up a big acreage you will need fert in most cases… 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

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