Fert prices and stocking rates

[Bald Rick]

If you look at the value of fertiliser N in terms of DM production, then even at £500/t there is a return on 1st & even 2nd cut

Just glad we have invested in a trailing shoe though as most of our inputs will come from the back end of the cows at those prices

 

[Derrick Hughes]

What about direct drilling in

Difficult for an organic farmer unless he overseeds , I've no had much success overseeding with grass , could work better with clover

 

[Bill the Bass]

does clover stack up without mid tier? fert useage will be less but so will stocking rates

Yes it does, we have land outside of Mid tier that has been reseeded with higher clover, a basic type of herbal ley if you like, it out yields our rye grass and white clover leys and pretty much saved one batch of cows this summer when we had no rain between June and October.

I dont envisage stocking rates going down, maybe even go up as we get better at grazing management but in any case more cows does not always equate to more profit.

 

[Bones]

I use it on cutting ground with great effect. Curious how I could utilise it within a rotational grazing system? Would it taint the grass too much which would reduce intakes??

Found the opposite, I rotate graze but with sheep, find they run to the bright green stuff first,

 

[Bossfarmer]

Yes it does.
Stocking rates pretty good here. 63 R1 heifers on 25 acres
View attachment 989867

looks good stuff are u rotationally grazing that or set stocked?bloat ever n an issue?

 

[Samcowman]

looks good stuff are u rotationally grazing that or set stocked?bloat ever n an issue?

Yes rotate them. Shifting daily but do switch to every other day due to workload or family commitments. On target to hit 1200 animal days/ hectare. Averaging 0.75kg/ day at the moment.
This is this leys first year so would expect more next year.
No bloat issues. I think keeping them on the same stuff since April will help so they will transition with the award as it changes throughout the year. Also longer recovery periods would help as the stems would be more mature helping to buffer the power of the clover

 

[neilo]

Difficult for an organic farmer unless he overseeds , I've no had much success overseeding with grass , could work better with clover

I did try and tell you.....

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I did try and tell you.....

Yes I know ,

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Before people start frothing at the mouth… wholesale gas is dropping like buggery. If we sit tight and don’t order any at £500 it will be a lot neater too sense by spring. If we buy it the firms will think they can get away with it and hold the price up while the inputs fall away!
I won’t be making any big decisions until spring. I try not too carry passengers or dead weight at any time regardless of fert price or grass availability.

 

[Benr]

I use it on both great stuff

You havent found it contaminates the silage then? What rate do you spread it at and with what spreader please?

 

[muleman]

Before people start frothing at the mouth… wholesale gas is dropping like buggery. If we sit tight and don’t order any at £500 it will be a lot neater too sense by spring. If we buy it the firms will think they can get away with it and hold the price up while the inputs fall away!
I won’t be making any big decisions until spring. I try not too carry passengers or dead weight at any time regardless of fert price or grass availability.

No need to pay those prices , wait till spring as you say....there are different ways to get round the problem....could buy a lot of creep feed with that money if grass is scarce, no need to panic yet!

 

[neilo]

Before people start frothing at the mouth… wholesale gas is dropping like buggery. If we sit tight and don’t order any at £500 it will be a lot neater too sense by spring. If we buy it the firms will think they can get away with it and hold the price up while the inputs fall away!
I won’t be making any big decisions until spring. I try not too carry passengers or dead weight at any time regardless of fert price or grass availability.

I agree with your point on the passengers (but wonder if ‘passenger’ would be an appropriate description of those wee Blackie stores you had hanging about until June…..), but it’s not much use holding off fert if you are looking at an empty store and have any cereals in the ground that will respond well to some Nitrogen applied in late Feb/March. Even on my small scale I’d be having itchy feet if I didn’t have at least a bit put away…..

 

[gone up the hill]

I agree with your point on the passengers (but wonder if ‘passenger’ would be an appropriate description of those wee Blackie stores you had hanging about until June…..), but it’s not much use holding off fert if you are looking at an empty store and have any cereals in the ground that will respond well to some Nitrogen applied in late Feb/March. Even on my small scale I’d be having itchy feet if I didn’t have at least a bit put away…..

Arable crops and maize will need the fert like normal in the early spring regardless of the price of Fert.

But i think few grassland farmers will be putting much on.

Would make more sense to go out and buy some of this cheapish fodder that is about this winter and keep your own grub for the following winter at these fert prices!

 

[neilo]

No need to pay those prices , wait till spring as you say....there are different ways to get round the problem....could buy a lot of creep feed with that money if grass is scarce, no need to panic yet!

With wheat over £200 already and barley not far behind, I suspect creep price might be making a few cough next Spring.

I expect those newly wealthy mule breeders will need to keep this year’s profits back to fill their hoppers next summer….

 

[Ffermer Bach]

What about direct drilling in

have tried with the einbock but I wasn't that impressed, I think direct drilling in would work better with roundup

 

[neilo]

Arable crops and maize will need the fert like normal in the early spring regardless of the price of Fert.

But i think few grassland farmers will be putting much on.

Would make more sense to go out and buy some of this cheapish fodder that is about this winter and keep your own grub for the following winter at these fert prices!

I agree to a point, but why would anyone sell fodder cheap when faced with the cost of replacing it next year? I’ll certainly be sitting on my surplus unless someone makes a healthy offer.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

I agree to a point, but why would anyone sell fodder cheap when faced with the cost of replacing it next year? I’ll certainly be sitting on my surplus unless someone makes a healthy offer.

There are plenty around here who have sold all their stock and just make fodder. They need too sell too maintain cash flow. (The fact they sell a lot of the time for less than I reckon it costs too make doesn’t seem too matter!)

 

[Anymulewilldo]

I agree with your point on the passengers (but wonder if ‘passenger’ would be an appropriate description of those wee Blackie stores you had hanging about until June…..), but it’s not much use holding off fert if you are looking at an empty store and have any cereals in the ground that will respond well to some Nitrogen applied in late Feb/March. Even on my small scale I’d be having itchy feet if I didn’t have at least a bit put away…..

It was July before they went!! I was more meaning ewes or cows that are freeloading but crap stores that are eating and not doing also fit the bill! sorting the last bunch of Cheviot lambs today, some have definitely shrunk in the month they have been here. All the doses and decent pasture grass and they still won’t start growing. got vet coming doing bloods next week. Bloody things, I sort of accept it at £35 each. But at nearly £60 I get a bit pi$$ed off!

 

[neilo]

It was July before they went!! I was more meaning ewes or cows that are freeloading but crap stores that are eating and not doing also fit the bill! sorting the last bunch of Cheviot lambs today, some have definitely shrunk in the month they have been here. All the doses and decent pasture grass and they still won’t start growing. got vet coming doing bloods next week. Bloody things, I sort of accept it at £35 each. But at nearly £60 I get a bit pi$$ed off!

On the bright side, at least the disposal cost hasn’t gone up in line with the store lamb price….
And if you have a dead box, they won’t take up the same space as the £60 stores that died last year…

I’ve turned over a new leaf after Mrs NeilO’s complaints, with no more looking at the glass being half empty.

 

[Agrivator]

Don't panic. Even if nitrogen fertiliser stays high:

Urea at £250/t gives a nitrogen cost of 27p/unit

Urea at £500/t gives a nitrogen cost of 54p/unit.

If sheep are grazed on decent permanent grass during the grazing season at between 4 and 7 ewes/acre, each ewe requires 24 units of nitrogen, spread over three dressings of about 12 units in March, 6 units in May, and 6 units in June/July.

At 27p /unit, the N costs £6.50/ewe. At 54p/unit, the N costs £13/ewe.

Now that lambs are worth £90 at weaning, (hopefully) , and each ewe rears 1.6 lambs worth £144, surely we can afford to spend £13/ewe on nitrogen.

Exactly the same principles apply to growing cattle (48 units/beast) or suckler cows with calves (96 units/cow).

Well-managed permanent grass will last forever. Expensive reseeds and clover leys will often be worn out in a few years and need ever-increasing expense to replace them. But the assumption is that optimum lime etc is applied in both cases.