Fibrophos instead of lime on sprayed off pp?

[Derrick Hughes]

Surely that depends on where you want to get it to? No point in trying to get soils here to sit near pH7. As long as they are maintained somewhere over 6 then I'm a happy bunny. I don't use a lot of N, and don't cultivate any more than I need to, both of which have meant that pH doesn't drop anywhere near as fast.

This field will be in IRG and annual/red clovers, so I will likely go with 2t to lift it a bit higher though.

Have a look at the table and see where you sit, but it's recommending no less than 1.2 tons to get to 6.5 for grassland , I would sooner sit nearer 7 than nearer 6 for Clover , it will soon drop back

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Out of interest when was the field last limed and what was the PH then , history tells the story of how much lime you need

 

[Kevtherev]

Optimum for grassland should be around 6.5 but @neilo is fully aware of this.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Optimum for grassland should be around 6.5 but @neilo is fully aware of this.

I'm sure he can speak for himself

 

[Kevtherev]

I'm sure he can speak for himself

What’s that supposed to mean?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

What’s that supposed to mean?

We all know what the optimum is , it's how to keep it as near to the optimum , we have to lime every 5 years or it will drop to 5.5 or lower so well below the optimum it rises to when we apply two tone , so better for us to take it a bit higher , or lime more often I suppose, but Niels 1 ton wont even get up to the optimum , and more than likely he will be back liming in 2 years , unless his lime loss is a lot less than mine

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I think it all depends on the ground and each farmer will know his better than anyone.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I think it all depends on the ground and each farmer will know his better than anyone.

Yes , but constant soil testing and records are an important part of that , if you don't understand your lime loss how can you judge what to apply and when

 

[hally]

A lot of lime loss is due to leaching so a run of wetter years has more effect than any other factor imo.

 

[ollie989898]

Surely that depends on where you want to get it to? No point in trying to get soils here to sit near pH7. As long as they are maintained somewhere over 6 then I'm a happy bunny. I don't use a lot of N, and don't cultivate any more than I need to, both of which have meant that pH doesn't drop anywhere near as fast.

This field will be in IRG and annual/red clovers, so I will likely go with 2t to lift it a bit higher though.

I was basically of the same mind, if the land was notorious for being very low in pH then above pH6 was acceptable, but 6.5 or above would be better. You need to know the locality and your own dirt. On some soils, you could nearly see to the line where lime had been applied.

 

[neilo]

We all know what the optimum is , it's how to keep it as near to the optimum , we have to lime every 5 years or it will drop to 5.5 or lower so well below the optimum it rises to when we apply two tone , so better for us to take it a bit higher , or lime more often I suppose, but Niels 1 ton wont even get up to the optimum , and more than likely he will be back liming in 2 years , unless his lime loss is a lot less than mine

Presumably you are applying lots of N to your land, either as bagged or slurry, in order to grow Westerwolds, etc for selling as a silage crop? That will acidify the soil pretty quickly.
My management means liming isn’t required as often.

 

[Truenorth]

Lime before seeding then Fibrophos later if you can manage the cost. Fibrophos is slow acting so be next year before you get the use of it. Lime would get pH up for new seeds.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Presumably you are applying lots of N to your land, either as bagged or slurry, in order to grow Westerwolds, etc for selling as a silage crop? That will acidify the soil pretty quickly.
My management means liming isn’t required as often.

Don't grow much Westerwolds, longer term cutting and grazing , high rainfall free draining , always used a lot of lime , the type of lime used helps mind

 

[neilo]

As an update I did it properly in the end. I've applied 2t/ac of lime and 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos, just before drilling.

Couch was starting to green up again, despite having 6L/ha of glyphosate (+ water conditioner + humic acid), so had another 3L to finish it off, five days before the lime. Small amount of rain since, so hopefully germinate quickly in the slots now.

 

[hollister]

As an update I did it properly in the end. I've applied 2t/ac of lime and 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos, just before drilling.

Couch was starting to green up again, despite having 6L/ha of glyphosate (+ water conditioner + humic acid), so had another 3L to finish it off, five days before the lime. Small amount of rain since, so hopefully germinate quickly in the slots now.

Thought it was fulvic acid for better uptake?

 

[neilo]

Thought it was fulvic acid for better uptake?

I was always told humic, but the product has both anyway.

 

[Steevo]

As an update I did it properly in the end. I've applied 2t/ac of lime and 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos, just before drilling.

Couch was starting to green up again, despite having 6L/ha of glyphosate (+ water conditioner + humic acid), so had another 3L to finish it off, five days before the lime. Small amount of rain since, so hopefully germinate quickly in the slots now.

A total of 9l/ha of glyphosate should give anything a good bashing!

I’m sure you’ll get good payback from the lime and Fibrophos in this first season that will make it well worthwhile.

Provably be cheaper than doing it next year the way things are going too!!

 

[Yale]

What’s the report @neilo , how is the dd coping with the heat?

 

[neilo]

What’s the report @neilo , how is the dd coping with the heat?

Ready for grazing next week.

Nah, it was germinating surprisingly well in the slots from a little bit of moisture, and new seedlings are appearing daily. However, many of the original seedlings seem to be disappearing again.
If we get a decent thunderstorm I suspect it will green up quickly, but I can’t help but think that a lot of the first seeds up will be long gone by then. In a few damp patches (high water table next to lake), it looks to be doing ok, so definitely a water problem.

That said, the slug pellets I put on after drilling disappeared almost overnight. The next lot didn’t last much longer, and there’s hardly a trace of the 3rd application! You’d think the buggers would fry in this heat, but still plenty of them active.

Edit: I’ll see what’s doing when the hot spell breaks, but fully expect to have to DD some more ryegrass/RC mix to thicken things up.

It wouldn’t have been any different if I’d done the full cultivation job imo, just daft heat after a bit of damp.

 

[Birch Solutions]

I sprayed off some old pp (couch infested) a couple of days ago, with 6L/ha of glyphosate, water conditioner and Humic acid, no longer a cheap operation!
I’ll be grazing it down after 5 days or so, and was then going to DD a 2-3yr IRG/annual/red clover mix in with my Simtech. PH is 5.8, and obviously the decaying thatch will reduce that in the seeding zone temporarily.

Plan was to apply 1t/ac of lime pre-drilling, but would Fibrophos do the same job, whilst applying P&K?
Ideally I would apply both, but costs getting scary obviously. Do I need to bite the bullet?

https://birchchemicals.co.uk/ may get able to advise