Field ploughing for flood prevention

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Ploughing heavy wet ground won’t increase infiltration rates. It will slow the surface run for maybe a week but with plough pan smeared over it won’t be long before the furrows overflow and infact gather the water across the hill into dips which then overflow off down the hill cutting grooves that make it even worse. When it’s wet all you do is leave it alone. Any action at all just seals any ground you touch.
The footpath should be closed or rerouted so it takes a less problematic route.
Personally I think the days of having steep slopes in arable use are over, particularly with difficult soils. Permanent pasture and sucklers housed over winter, low intensity sheep or woodland is the way forward.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
ah yes quite a common problem footpath.
'the ploughing thing, ' could just be a 'trend of a distraction' as in this 'regen ' thing.

The first subject needed to be studied with regards to water going in and out and up and down , is Geology.
Then what happens on the surface can be looked at .
 

Old Spot

Member
Location
Glos
E1E605BD-4783-4C81-A4A2-AD150E0EB528.jpeg

after rain just before Christmas my DD land on left, neighbours heavy cultivation on the right
both same soil type and mixed grass arable.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Pic says 1000 words!👌
Hmm does it, i think we need a broader perspective and much more info before one narrow vision photo like that can be taken notice of inany way.

because it could be the bit he didnt tell us about was the fact that his full of life water loving labrador had been trouncing around/ high jinks in the ditch just out of shot up stream tothe right.. 😂
 
Hmm does it, i think we need a broader perspective and much more info before one narrow vision photo like that can be taken notice of inany way.

because it could be the bit he didnt tell us about was the fact that his full of life water loving labrador had been trouncing around/ high jinks in the ditch just out of shot up stream tothe right.. 😂

ive seen similar today whilst out stalking on my own turf (labs left at home though!), I can believe it
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
ive seen similar today whilst out stalking on my own turf (labs left at home though!), I can believe it
back to the OP. (see doctor Wazzocks post above)
If the field is actually (and not just the footpath) causing run off a more knowledgable demand the C. Council could've made was that the farmer of the field in question not arable crop it and that it is t be put down to a diverse mix PP including grass like crested dogstail (which is reluctantly grazed) and the likes of chicory which is deep rooting and with the rule that the whole area not grazed from October on untill May,
The cc should then write to the relevant parish council and tell them to sort the foot path prob. either by water diversion or some sort of surface to stop erosion or because it will be a wter wy in heavy rain anyway they should even consider closure in winter under the hse clause visa vi that someone could slip down , all the way to bottom and burn their arse in the process. lol

happy days.
 
Agree to a site meeting with these idiots. Be well rehearsed and well researched. When they start on point out that:

1. Tilling a field when it is wet is highly damaging to soil life and can do more harm than good.

2. Ploughing is out of vogue these days for reasons X,Y and Z.

3. Will the council reimburse you when Natural England come after you for leaving a field totally bare and ploughed over winter which flies in the face of modern guidelines for protection of soil and water?
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
Ask them to re-confirm the request with (a) a copy of the recommendation in writing from a named qualified professional, (b) a map of the specific area, (c) a copy of the legislation requiring you to carry out the work, (d) confirmation that the council will (i) pay for the work and (ii) compensate you for the loss of the crop, and (iii) refund you the costs of the disruption to your farming program. I am sure TFF will be able to think of a few more costs, including the lease of the land "acquired" by walkers adjacent to and widening the designated footpath.

Two rules when dealing with civil servants. (I) always get it in writing and (2) make them state their sources. If you can set one government department against another, that qualifies for bonus points.
That’s a good answer!
 

Andy26

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Northants
Here’s one for you!

a customer has been written to, to demand he ploughs his field at 90 degrees to the slope (standard)......
The field in question is linseed stubble destined to be direct drilled when the weather permits......
He had been written too by the local flood prevention department of the county council!!! To slow the water from running off the hill and over welming the ditches...

There is also a footpath running straight up the hill that due to COVID walkers is now 15m wide and panned to hell that runs like a river down the slope, out the footpath gate and down the road flooding someone’s house.....

Doesn’t this kinda go against everything ag is trying to do at the moment.... should he do it and just bill them for the work?
Thoughts??? 36mm rain in 24hrs and 50mm in 24hrs don’t help!!

C B
I would presume they mean in future when the field next needs to be ploughed, plough being a catch all term, at right angles to the slope.

Not literally hitch the Dowdeswell up and get on it in the morning.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I would presume they mean in future when the field next needs to be ploughed, plough being a catch all term, at right angles to the slope.

Not literally hitch the Dowdeswell up and get on it in the morning.

I thought that too, but the OP appeared to be describing an action that teh Council wanted to be taken now...

Drilling across the slope, would I agree, be the ideal in the future, but as we all know, this is not sometimes achievable.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
back to the OP. (see doctor Wazzocks post above)
If the field is actually (and not just the footpath) causing run off a more knowledgable demand the C. Council could've made was that the farmer of the field in question not arable crop it and that it is t be put down to a diverse mix PP including grass like crested dogstail (which is reluctantly grazed) and the likes of chicory which is deep rooting and with the rule that the whole area not grazed from October on untill May,
The cc should then write to the relevant parish council and tell them to sort the foot path prob. either by water diversion or some sort of surface to stop erosion or because it will be a wter wy in heavy rain anyway they should even consider closure in winter under the hse clause visa vi that someone could slip down , all the way to bottom and burn their arse in the process. lol

happy days.

Nowt to do with the Parish Council. FP is Highways at the County/Borough Council. Maybe the CC would like some input into ELMS and your proposal, everyone else is having their Two Pennyworth!!

Oh Happy Days indeed :)
 

crazy_bull

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Huntingdon
I would presume they mean in future when the field next needs to be ploughed, plough being a catch all term, at right angles to the slope.

Not literally hitch the Dowdeswell up and get on it in the morning.

To be fair, I don't know, the impression I was given was that it needed to be done asap to prevent further flooding.

C B
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I think it needs a longer term strategic rethink. I have sprayed a lot of steep ground for neighbours and by the end of winter there are always some rills cut down it especially on the end rig tramlines. You can see the fertiliser and herbicide has washed all over the place. Why they carried on risking it ( or me and my machine) I’ll never know and I ended up refusing to spray it. In some ways the single payment encourages the cropping of a lot of completely unsuitable ground, maybe necessary in a war but not so much now. If ELMS results in reversion of steeper non products ground into more sustainable use it won’t be a bad thing. It really needs to be woodland or sympathetically managed PP.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
and lets be honest arable farming is easier than livestock farming.

and another thing beyond natural erosion( which does happen of course) people cause ,people wether by them using footpaths or farming the ground for produce bulldozing building sites earthmoving for roads etc.
no people less soil erosion (y)
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I thought that too, but the OP appeared to be describing an action that teh Council wanted to be taken now...

Drilling across the slope, would I agree, be the ideal in the future, but as we all know, this is not sometimes achievable.
theres none of what we farm that,that is not achievable on,any steeper than what weve got and i wouldnt arable it as in DW's post.
in doing so our ploughs tip the soil uphill by 600 mm and water will be caught by the top of the furrow.headlands are a problem in that respect yes.
beyond that broadcasting can be done across easily, no tramlines either.

you know as well is i do that a big problem is these days there are too many commentators without good long term relevant practical knowledge on an agricultural subject , or any subject for that matter, theres way too many 'politicians ' about the place:banghead:
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
To be fair, I don't know, the impression I was given was that it needed to be done asap to prevent further flooding.

C B
as mentioned above well designed Swales would help put in in the right places.,official bods when /if they seek advice will be advised that im sure, for instance its a basic requirement of planing on solar sites with any sort of slope.
 

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