Financial value of FYM

[DRC]

Not worth going round our fields with a roller at the mo.... it's just bouncing over the lumps as it's so hard. Really need a good roll though as the cows made a fair mess in the autumn. You've had some rain I take it?

Very wet field, so just soft enough. Missed the rain last weekend , but had 3mm the week before

 

[warksfarmer]

Did you work out the fertilser value for what you used? P, K, Mg etc.

At the time yes, but I can’t remember the figures

 

[Brisel]

At the time yes, but I can’t remember the figures

Was the PK value in excess of the cost by the time you'd added haulage, spreading, comparable cost of buying & spreading TSP, kieserite and MOP?

The fertiliser value of the PAS100 compost I'm buying in at the moment is £5.25/t for £4/t delivered & spread, vs TSP, MOP and kieserite (I'm on low magnesium high calcium soils).

 

[warksfarmer]

Was the PK value in excess of the cost by the time you'd added haulage, spreading, comparable cost of buying & spreading TSP, kieserite and MOP?

The fertiliser value of the PAS100 compost I'm buying in at the moment is £5.25/t for £4/t delivered & spread, vs TSP, MOP and kieserite (I'm on low magnesium high calcium soils).

Yes

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

But your 10,000 tonne pile of muck would have £80,000 of nutrients would it not?

The trouble with FYM is that the N is worth very little. I appreciate it does contain a lot more than just the nutrient analysis but the saving in bag fertiliser has to stack up first.

 

[jackrussell101]

I've always thought slurry spread onto chopped straw would be a good idea, and less risk of importing blackgrass etc.

Everything baled here though, most of it put through the pigs and back out as muck.
Ottomh there is about 7kg/t each of p&k, so roughly 3 quid of k & £4.50 of P. N is negligible, but lots of trace elements.
I charge my pig enterprise straw at what I could sell it at, (this year £55/t ex field) and sell the arable the muck at £8/t.
From an arable perspective, I count the om/soil conditioning element as equivalent to the cost of spreading the muck.
Muck is one thing that does more than it says on the tin - benefits last more than one season and it provides more than it's nutritional value.
Also seen more benefit from not ploughing it down, in spuds and cereals.

When you say benefits from not ploughing it down, what do you do, do you just disc it in instead?

 

[Chae1]

Depends on value you put on organic matter, and increased biological activity. Also all the trace elements, we feed tons of minerals that go through cattle then back on as FYM.

Also when comparing it to artificial fertilisers, many of these are created using chemicals? If you believe the doomsayers on here, it will damage life in your soil too and poison it.

We apply hundreds of tons of muck and still use lots of bagged P&K. Put 250kg/ha 15.21.21plus 5s down spout when drilling. It cost £290/t. That was on best farm. Poorer land getting 370kg/ha.

 

[Spud]

When you say benefits from not ploughing it down, what do you do, do you just disc it in instead?

Nope, just drill into it. I guess very high doses would necessitate some cultivations, but ploughing it down and lying it in a layer in the furrow bottom seems to negate any benefits.
We tend to spread fym in summer pre direct drilling cover crops. Pre spuds we mix the fym and cover crop into 7-8" of soil pre plough or shakerator, to retain the physical om in the bed. Much less bedtilling and much easier harvesting, with better quality spuds has resulted.

 

[Brisel]

Burying FYM has 2 main consequences. Firstly, it will help keep the nitrogen from volatilising as ammonia and urea which is worth considering for high available N manures like poultry muck. Secondly, it does put it below where most of your earthworms and soil biology is which is in the top 2" or so but the crop roots will get to it eventually. It's a trade off between preserving N by burying it and feeding the majority of the soil life and root mass near the surface which is more about carbon. The climate change brigade are happy not to have so many emissions, hence the rule for incorporating manures within 24 hours on arable. It's down to what suits your system and where your priorities lie.

I prefer to leave it on top for the worms to deal with it and not oxidise organic matter by moving soil but I don't have manures that are high in volatile N.

 

[livestock 1]

Where are we at with this now? So much has changed

 

[snarling bee]

Double your previous estimate!

 

[livestock 1]

Double your previous estimate!

I don’t know what that was. I had it estimated at £5 a tonne last time against fertiliser equivalent a year ago

 

[milkloss]

Reckon I'm fcking loaded!

 

[snarling bee]

Pig FYM now worth probably £12-15 tonne.
But £10 of that is the monetary value of the straw we put in (@ £60 tonne). Nutrient value of straw is obviously less. Say £8 value of nutrients in a tonne straw which is £1.40 per tonne muck

 

[Hilly]

Where are we at with this now? So much has changed

invaluable as it always has been, them not producing any won’t produce much without artificial and look at the price of that ! And it’s bad for the land .

 

[livestock 1]

invaluable as it always has been, them not producing any won’t produce much without artificial and look at the price of that ! And it’s bad for the land .

This is exactly right

 

[Chae1]

Sorry for taking things off topic again.

But muck applied here last winter hasn't broken down at all. We had a terrible growing season. Cold, dry, wet and poor yields generally.

It was obvious in growing crops they hadn't got anything from muck. Normally obvious fields that get it. They go flat.

Ploughing again at moment and mucks Ploughing up again, same as it went down.

Do soil microbes stop working at lower temperatures?

 

[milkloss]

Sorry for taking things off topic again.

But muck applied here last winter hasn't broken down at all. We had a terrible growing season. Cold, dry, wet and poor yields generally.

It was obvious in growing crops they hadn't got anything from muck. Normally obvious fields that get it. They go flat.

Ploughing again at moment and mucks Ploughing up again, same as it went down.

Do soil microbes stop working at lower temperatures?

Again, slightly off topic. Perhaps the use of wormers causes this? Try not to treat the cattle just before housing as their pats never break down over winter and look lifeless.

 

[jh.]

Sorry for taking things off topic again.

But muck applied here last winter hasn't broken down at all. We had a terrible growing season. Cold, dry, wet and poor yields generally.

It was obvious in growing crops they hadn't got anything from muck. Normally obvious fields that get it. They go flat.

Ploughing again at moment and mucks Ploughing up again, same as it went down.

Do soil microbes stop working at lower temperatures?

I had a 30 acre field of spring barley this year . It got over 70 heaped grain trailer loads of dung (10 to 15ton wheat size). This was put in a midden for months to rot down and spread , so worked out easily a dung spreader load a acre so prob 14 ton ish? . Nothing went over a weight bridge . It's probably had dung 3 times since 2008 iirc .

This field then got a total of110kgN/hec . It did better than the field without dung and 125kgN but not as good as a field right next to it that got no dung but 135kgN . Doing this off memory without pulling diary out .

Just had all 3 soil sampled and surprised to see very little between any of them despite the one at 135kg never having dung in over 30 years

 

[Bossfarmer]

I had a 30 acre field of spring barley this year . It got over 70 heaped grain trailer loads of dung (10 to 15ton wheat size). This was put in a midden for months to rot down and spread , so worked out easily a dung spreader load a acre so prob 14 ton ish? . Nothing went over a weight bridge . It's probably had dung 3 times since 2008 iirc .

This field then got a total of110kgN/hec . It did better than the field without dung and 125kgN but not as good as a field right next to it that got no dung but 135kgN . Doing this off memory without pulling diary out .

Just had all 3 soil sampled and surprised to see very little between any of them despite the one at 135kg never having dung in over 30 years

ill bet though if it had been a drought summer like 2018 that field which got 70 trailer loads of dung would outyield the others by a huge margin