Finishing cattle on organic system

[Fenwick]

Are you happy with that?

 

[Martyn]

We are new to the organic game, have currently 43 18 month old limis cross on red clover leys and 2kg a day of crimp, motoring, also a group of younger herefords comethrough. Anyone successfully finnishing stock with oats rather than barley? would favour finnishing on grass but hard to do over winter months.

 

[tinsheet]

We are new to the organic game, have currently 43 18 month old limis cross on red clover leys and 2kg a day of crimp, motoring, also a group of younger herefords comethrough. Anyone successfully finnishing stock with oats rather than barley? would favour finnishing on grass but hard to do over winter months.

Got any red clover silage?
They won't need anything else if you have!
(Maybe a touch of fibre).

 

[Fenwick]

Got any red clover silage?
They won't need anything else if you have!
(Maybe a touch of fibre).

Perhaps things are différent in thé UK. But when we talk about fattening cattle here it means energy (céréals). We find clover is great for growth rates, gaining muscle or producing milk but not for putting on fat.

Does anyone know whats pasture species are high in energy? I aim for a fat score of 3.

 

[tinsheet]

Perhaps things are différent in thé UK. But when we talk about fattening cattle here it means energy (céréals). We find clover is great for growth rates, gaining muscle or producing milk but not for putting on fat.

Does anyone know whats pasture species are high in energy? I aim for a fat score of 3.

Grass only here, I here what your saying but we're running natives (Angus Herefords) they don't need any encouragement to get fat! .
Certainly with continentals you may need a bit extra

 

[Fenwick]

Grass only here, I here what your saying but we're running natives (Angus Herefords) they don't need any encouragement to get fat! .
Certainly with continentals you may need a bit extra

The angus and herefords we see here certainly dont need any encouragement for fattening. Though @Chasingmytail posted

Just a follow up on this.

Organic grassfed

Graded o+2 and R2
Killed out 275 - 308kg

So around £1100 each.

I think getting certified Grassfed certification will give a few pence per kg extra. But only to those companies selling pasture fed.

A fat score of two isn't finished. If i direct sale beef like that i risk getting complaints. But then i'd get complaints for a fat score of 4 as well. If i was to sell to market i'd get knocked down a bit too. Maybe it matters, maybe not.

I can finish some of our Salers x Charolaise on grass (but not all) for most of the year, depending on where they are and what they are eating. But why some and not others? Genetics? Feed? Should i look closer at forage, management? probably both.
Generally we count about 90kgs of grain to finish each animal.

However I can't fatten them in winter from only conserved forage. - Well I think possibly from a late harvested wholecrop but i havent yet tried.

I'd be interested in getting weaned off the grain completely. There are better things to do with it, like putting it through a pig. And it would certainly make life easier. Besides, I don't think cows are meant to eat lots of grain.

 

[Gulli]

The angus and herefords we see here certainly dont need any encouragement for fattening. Though @Chasingmytail posted


A fat score of two isn't finished. If i direct sale beef like that i risk getting complaints. But then i'd get complaints for a fat score of 4 as well. If i was to sell to market i'd get knocked down a bit too. Maybe it matters, maybe not.

I can finish some of our Salers x Charolaise on grass (but not all) for most of the year, depending on where they are and what they are eating. But why some and not others? Genetics? Feed? Should i look closer at forage, management? probably both.
Generally we count about 90kgs of grain to finish each animal.

However I can't fatten them in winter from only conserved forage. - Well I think possibly from a late harvested wholecrop but i havent yet tried.

I'd be interested in getting weaned off the grain completely. There are better things to do with it, like putting it through a pig. And it would certainly make life easier. Besides, I don't think cows are meant to eat lots of grain.

Would you get knocked down in market by more or less than it costs you in grain?
Look at your forage management, but certainly a genetic element!
Do you need to finish them in winter?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Do you need to finish them in winter?

This is a bit of a conundrum imo.
I would like to go all grass, but with a spring calving herd, finishing by 18 months is gonna take some doing, but running them a second winter then finishing off grass in the 3rd summer seems a long time to have them around. Maybe ok for some of the slow growing traditional breeds ?
Unless you go for lighter weights and finish that 2nd summer? Doable with steers and spot on grazing management?

 

[Gulli]

This is a bit of a conundrum imo.
I would like to go all grass, but with a spring calving herd, finishing by 18 months is gonna take some doing, but running them a second winter then finishing off grass in the 3rd summer seems a long time to have them around. Maybe ok for some of the slow growing traditional breeds ?
Unless you go for lighter weights and finish that 2nd summer? Doable with steers and spot on grazing management?

I know what you mean, the 2nd winter is always difficult, but it depends on what your aims are, if you have to feed grain to finish during the winter but dont want to feed grain...
Anything is possible, the growth genetics are available to finish off grass at 18 months, but maybe the grass isnt used well enough?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is a bit of a conundrum imo.
I would like to go all grass, but with a spring calving herd, finishing by 18 months is gonna take some doing, but running them a second winter then finishing off grass in the 3rd summer seems a long time to have them around. Maybe ok for some of the slow growing traditional breeds ?
Unless you go for lighter weights and finish that 2nd summer? Doable with steers and spot on grazing management?

We try to keep our cattle smaller going into second winter - weigh often, draft a forward mob early to push on and this keeps the second mob lighter/easier to feed during winter.
Compensatory growth and good pasture mgmt generally means they absolutely fly when the grass comes, the past fortnight our bulls have averaged 2.64kg/day on grass alone - and there isn't much yet!!
As soon as the grasses boot, the fibre increase/lignin tends to put fat on them, but juicy "squirter grass" just makes them grow. Balance is important

 

[exmoor dave]

This is a bit of a conundrum imo.
I would like to go all grass, but with a spring calving herd, finishing by 18 months is gonna take some doing, but running them a second winter then finishing off grass in the 3rd summer seems a long time to have them around. Maybe ok for some of the slow growing traditional breeds ?
Unless you go for lighter weights and finish that 2nd summer? Doable with steers and spot on grazing management?

Its a right pain having cattle go into a 3rd summer, esp if its a small group of stragglers,
Leaving aside the costs, its a extra mob that need top quality grass, so for us that meabs competing with better paying lambs.

With the TB situation, finishing is the best option for us so we try to get as much done in the 2nd winter.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

We try to keep our cattle smaller going into second winter - weigh often, draft a forward mob early to push on and this keeps the second mob lighter/easier to feed during winter.
Compensatory growth and good pasture mgmt generally means they absolutely fly when the grass comes, the past fortnight our bulls have averaged 2.64kg/day on grass alone - and there isn't much yet!!
As soon as the grasses boot, the fibre increase/lignin tends to put fat on them, but juicy "squirter grass" just makes them grow. Balance is important

Do you have an age limit on bulls Pete?

I'd like to try a bunch of bulls on grass, but the 16 month age limit makes it a very risky experiment.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Its a right pain having cattle go into a 3rd summer, esp if its a small group of stragglers,
Leaving aside the costs, its a extra mob that need top quality grass, so for us that meabs competing with better paying lambs.

With the TB situation, finishing is the best option for us so we try to get as much done in the 2nd winter.

All on Angus scheme? Presumably you feed cereals on that? Unless odd very late born calf, I find heifers easy enough to finish to decent weights by around 20-22 months during 2nd winter. And I currently intensively finish bulls on barley, but would like to get away from so much concentrate usage.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you have an age limit on bulls Pete?

I'd like to try a bunch of bulls on grass, but the 16 month age limit makes it a very risky experiment.

Not an official one, older bulls just get priced down severely.
With our fri bulls we bought 'recorded' ones so they were leased out; which effectively means the half we kept owe us zilch on the books, at 24 months of age.
Thus their sale will be all "profit" - less time and opportunity cost etc, I'll start to sell some very shortly as the farm needs to pay the CEO/COO

 

[Treg]

There's now to much stock being finished September/ October off grass imo.
I think there's alot of people who don't want to over winter stock for various reasons & there's a flood of cattle Autumn time which then depresses prices.
It's worth costing what it takes to get them into the following year or pushing them quicker to avoid those months.
There can be 50p/kg difference between something finishing late Autumn to something finishing June time.

 

[exmoor dave]

All on Angus scheme? Presumably you feed cereals on that? Unless odd very late born calf, I find heifers easy enough to finish to decent weights by around 20-22 months during 2nd winter. And I currently intensively finish bulls on barley, but would like to get away from so much concentrate usage.

Probs 3/4 angus's and a 1/4 Herefords, once we've taken Hereford heifers out of the equation.

Cattle cake in the 2nd winter.

Cattle are may/june born, grazed at home on the dry, 1st summer,
Out on the moor 1st winter.
Nt enviro grazing 2nd summer.
In the shed 2nd winter

 

[Fenwick]

There's now to much stock being finished September/ October off grass imo.
I think there's alot of people who don't want to over winter stock for various reasons & there's a flood of cattle Autumn time which then depresses prices.
It's worth costing what it takes to get them into the following year or pushing them quicker to avoid those months.
There can be 50p/kg difference between something finishing late Autumn to something finishing June time.

Basically this. A lot of people want to shed extra animals before winter so the price paid follows this trend. Add a drought during summer and then prices tumble. Being able to finish cattle at other times of year then becomes more important. For direct sales I have to be able to finish animals at anytime of year. But it is something I wish to continue for its economic and social interest.

Other than the ethical side of feeding grain, it also means I have to separate a group for fattening. Which means far more work for a handful of cows. However even by finishing with stocked forage I would have to do the same, or end up fattening the whole group? This year we have run two groups of cattle (instead of 4 or 5) on the farm and it has been a real pleasure. Would love to do that over winter too.