Finishing Stabilisers

[Xiaomi]

Got a small batch of these and was wondering how people finish them? I've read about ones piling the meal into them, but my understanding was from the blurb on the Stabiliser website was that they are very efficient.
I see from facebook that James Evans has his 100% grass fed.

What systems are these fellas running that are able to finish Stabiliser bulls at 14 months and steers at 18 months. I've read the guide in their best practice manual, but was wondering how do the grass fed ones get there.
Can you do this for a small number or does finishing only work when the economies of scale are factored in?

Is it correct that you only get the defined postives of Stabilisers when you are working from F3 (third cross) upwards?

Our plan is to AI the majority of our herd using one of the bulls from Cogent (Stan the Man is the best option going by the figures on their website). That way we are gettingt he best genetics into the herd. Cull off any poorly performing cows to be replaced by any promising heifers as the years progress.
The EBVs for Stan show (if my understanding is correct) show the weaning weight and yearling weight are good with decent accuracy levels. Finisher index is beyond all the other, but his weaning index seems poor. So would be more suitable for finishers than those looking replacements to build up herd or is that a quirk of the data collation as Stan, Sportsman and Lorenzo have poor weaning indexes? or am I misreading the data?

If anyone sells them as weanlings what weight/age are you putting them out at?


Thanks.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

They do very well as bulls on an intensive system. I've had bulls 700kgs at 12 months old.
However I'm moving to a more grass based system now, though grass is rather hard to come by currently! Aiming at a paddock grazing type system with daily moves.

I have a few Stan progeny. Nice shape, but early days yet.
My own stock bull is ai home bred by Norseman, though he is no longer available. Really pleased with calves by him.

I've got a few by Lorenzo too, as I was recommended him for milking ability in his daughters. To me he looks like a bull that would suit a grass system.

James Evans is looking to select for good grass performance so will be interesting to see his bulls coming along. I think he was on here but not sure he comes on these days.

As to performance of the crosses, I suspect it depends what you're breeding up from.
I had blue x dairy cows and find the 1st and 2nd x to stabiliser make good cows. But a more diverse mix for hybrid vigour would be hard to find I guess!.

 

[Old Spot]

I have only had them for four years, the F1‘S fatten as well as the F5’s
i calve April, creep on whole oats from August to November
bulls weaned sometime in December onto ad-lib home grown barley and protein pellet.
most go at 300kgdw R/U 4,s average age 11.5 months (it’s what my buyer wants).
i AI for 3 weeks then put the bull in
i used Stan last year, calves look good but not small
Resolution throws good average size calves, grow well.
i think any of the bulls available are worth using
the skill of breeding is not picking the next fantastic thing but blending bloodlines that work
the very best of luck, I truly enjoy it! It’s what makes me smile and get out of bed in the morning.

 

[Xiaomi]

Should I be looking at getting some clovers into the grass in order to help protein intake? I'm wondering how James can actively select for grass performance - I suspect a part of it is down to the ley he has them on - plus he would have the ground to run the mob system.
I'm only just two steps beyond a small holding and trying to find my way. Just wondering if the cost of ad-lib meal is cost effective for my setup.
If I could go the weanling route it would be good to keep the stock density down. Finding a market for them might be tough though as Stabilisers seem to be a bit marmite.

Looking forward to see Nobleman's calves next year. Was tempted to use him, but I'll let someone in a better than myself road test him.

 

[Old Spot]

I mob graze on herbal leys, that’s to keep the cows tight, healthy and to produce ample milk.
the calves do well most bulls grow at 1.5kg/day. I agree that some people dislike the Stabilser a friend says he would rather give up cows than keep them (he has just retired!). Let the cows do the talking.
its about efficiency. Your calves will do well but the cows need sufficient for them to get back in calf etc
i do mine hard and in mid-winter they wouldn’t win a herd competition
I aim for calves 35-38 kg birth wt, all calve on their own, no dead calves assist two heifers this time out of 66
i am using 10 nobleman this time just to get a few
most beef breeders who sell weanlings give them a bit of grub but it’s not vital.
we only creep feed (I resisted it for years) to take a bit of pressure of the cows especially heifers

 

[t murrr]

I mob graze on herbal leys, that’s to keep the cows tight, healthy and to produce ample milk.
the calves do well most bulls grow at 1.5kg/day. I agree that some people dislike the Stabilser a friend says he would rather give up cows than keep them (he has just retired!). Let the cows do the talking.
its about efficiency. Your calves will do well but the cows need sufficient for them to get back in calf etc
i do mine hard and in mid-winter they wouldn’t win a herd competition
I aim for calves 35-38 kg birth wt, all calve on their own, no dead calves assist two heifers this time out of 66
i am using 10 nobleman this time just to get a few
most beef breeders who sell weanlings give them a bit of grub but it’s not vital.
we only creep feed (I resisted it for years) to take a bit of pressure of the cows especially heifers

That is a great stat on the calving side we calved down to a limousine on limousine cross cows and 90% have to be jacked. The bulls average about 1.5 day and heifers about 1.0 a day .Watched a show on them recently and a guy outwinter ed his weanling on red start .They were mud fat .Unfortunately he went on about reducing carbon emissions and that the consumer would be willing to pay more for this beef etc by this system .

 

[Old Spot]

Ha, the customer will not pay more and emissions or lack of don’t pay the bills
The plan is to have strong maternal traits, I can always use a terminal sire if I want.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Should I be looking at getting some clovers into the grass in order to help protein intake? I'm wondering how James can actively select for grass performance - I suspect a part of it is down to the ley he has them on - plus he would have the ground to run the mob system.
I'm only just two steps beyond a small holding and trying to find my way. Just wondering if the cost of ad-lib meal is cost effective for my setup.
If I could go the weanling route it would be good to keep the stock density down. Finding a market for them might be tough though as Stabilisers seem to be a bit marmite.

Looking forward to see Nobleman's calves next year. Was tempted to use him, but I'll let someone in a better than myself road test him.

When I say select for good grass performance I do mean selecting cattle that perform well off grass rather than how well the grass performs?
I understand James is aiming at producing bulls that do well under this system for customers who are grass based. In the past many breeders have simply pulled promising bulls out of the intensive diet fattening pen and brought on from there.

 

[digger64]

I mob graze on herbal leys, that’s to keep the cows tight, healthy and to produce ample milk.
the calves do well most bulls grow at 1.5kg/day. I agree that some people dislike the Stabilser a friend says he would rather give up cows than keep them (he has just retired!). Let the cows do the talking.
its about efficiency. Your calves will do well but the cows need sufficient for them to get back in calf etc
i do mine hard and in mid-winter they wouldn’t win a herd competition
I aim for calves 35-38 kg birth wt, all calve on their own, no dead calves assist two heifers this time out of 66
i am using 10 nobleman this time just to get a few
most beef breeders who sell weanlings give them a bit of grub but it’s not vital.
we only creep feed (I resisted it for years) to take a bit of pressure of the cows especially heifers

What is the thinking behind this dislike for the breed ?

 

[ploughman1963]

Should I be looking at getting some clovers into the grass in order to help protein intake? I'm wondering how James can actively select for grass performance - I suspect a part of it is down to the ley he has them on - plus he would have the ground to run the mob system.
I'm only just two steps beyond a small holding and trying to find my way. Just wondering if the cost of ad-lib meal is cost effective for my setup.
If I could go the weanling route it would be good to keep the stock density down. Finding a market for them might be tough though as Stabilisers seem to be a bit marmite.

Looking forward to see Nobleman's calves next year. Was tempted to use him, but I'll let someone in a better than myself road test him.

James has carried out significant amounts of reseeding and setting up a grazing system with James Daniel of precision grazing which is a world away from your set-up?

 

[Woolless]

When I say select for good grass performance I do mean selecting cattle that perform well off grass rather than how well the grass performs?
I understand James is aiming at producing bulls that do well under this system for customers who are grass based. In the past many breeders have simply pulled promising bulls out of the intensive diet fattening pen and brought on from there.

Yes, a bloke I know went to buy a Stabiliser bull where they were on test. He had a shortlist of three (IIRC) and two were lame!

 

[Ted M]

What is the thinking behind this dislike for the breed ?

I really don't know. We've had them for 5-6 years and they have replaced continental crosses of various breeds and no way would I go back.
We haven't lost a calf for 3 years and only had to pull a couple which were backwards.
Bulls are doing over 400kg dw at 13 months. Last two went Monday came to £3k between them and never saw corn until housing.
Might have to break out the creep this year though because of lack of grass....

 

[t murrr]

Them bulls were averaging about 1.9 a day which is some tipping assuming the kill out percentage is 56 to live weight 720kg live calves dropped bout 35 _40 kg

 

[Old Spot]

What is the thinking behind this dislike for the breed ?

Don’t look big enough or beefy enough no good unless the mum is about 850kg
easy care for me is a big deal

 

[Woolless]

Don’t look big enough or beefy enough no good unless the mum is about 850kg
easy care for me is a big deal

Not to mention their elite breeding programme is based on data with the accent on efficiency, not just the size of their arse. I mean, who's interested in that?

 

[caleb]

What is the thinking behind this dislike for the breed ?

Stabilisers are untraditional, that's why.

 

[Old Spot]

Nor are most Angus and herefords
tin hat on!

 

[t murrr]

What weight is your cows are they purebred or x

 

[Old Spot]

Mixture, started off with 20 F3 and above and a bull
have 4 F1 calved this spring, 25 F1 to F5 bullers and 27 F1 to F5 heifer calves
to get the job going I have 30 crossbred dairy (Angus, sim, Hereford)
12 of our local rare breed the Gloucester
its a slow job grading up, but as I said before all put to Stabiliser, best AI for replacements
pure breeds just had second calves average 550kg, the first to go will be the sims, then the Angus,
a couple of them are 800kgs, eat more for the same calf performance.
give me 10 years!

 

[Fendt65]

Just bought a group of stabiliser cows with calves has anyone put a Limousin bull on them,really pleased with them but have bought into the maternal dam but wouldn’t mind a bit more shape in my calves.