Fluke dosing

[glensman]

How long would most of you wait before giving the first fluke drench in the current weather conditions?(N.ire, North of England and Scotland most relevant to me)

 

[Hilly]

Doing my ewes tomorrow hopefully , looks to ge a little break in the weather tomorrow .

 

[M-J-G]

Totally dependent on what you're doing them with.

Products that only work on mature fluke are pointless this early unless you've had a seriously wet summer.

 

[glensman]

Totally dependent on what you're doing them with.

Products that only work on mature fluke are pointless this early unless you've had a seriously wet summer.

That's why I specified first dose in the op.

 

[ladycrofter]

Don't think you'll do the job with one dose albendazole (adult stage only), with the warm weather keeping things going. We only use it in early Spring to knock out anything carried over the winter.

Triclabendazole would get all stages IIRC. We do closantal or tricalbendazole in late Sep, then 2nd dose with Tric when putting ewes out to tups.

 

[Agrivator]

The following is a summary of some very definitive work on Summer dosing to control. I think it involved four consecutive doses over about 3 or 4 years.

Further studies in the control of ovine fascioliasis by strategic dosing - PubMed

Three hill sheep flocks were used to study the effect of the strategic use of rafoxanide to kill liver flukes before they attained the adult egg-laying stage. The programme ran from 1973 to 1976. In November 1976 the programme was stopped in one flock but was continued in the other two, which...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Further studies in the control of ovine fascioliasis by strategic dosing​

A Whitelaw, A R Fawcett

• PMID: 7336552
• DOI: 10.1136/vr.109.6.118

Abstract​

Three hill sheep flocks were used to study the effect of the strategic use of rafoxanide to kill liver flukes before they attained the adult egg-laying stage. The programme ran from 1973 to 1976. In November 1976 the programme was stopped in one flock but was continued in the other two, which were subsequently merged. The results of frequent whole flock monitoring since 1976, described here, showed that in both flocks the level of infection, as judged by the examination of faeces for the presence of Fasciola hepatica eggs, remained at a very low level. It is postulated that the adoption of a strategic dosing programme over a period of three to four years would limit egg deposition on pastures close to eradication levels and that several years without needing to use anthelmintics against liver flukes would ensue.

 

[neilo]

The following is a summary of some very definitive work on Summer dosing to control. I think it involved four consecutive doses over about 3 or 4 years.

Further studies in the control of ovine fascioliasis by strategic dosing - PubMed

Three hill sheep flocks were used to study the effect of the strategic use of rafoxanide to kill liver flukes before they attained the adult egg-laying stage. The programme ran from 1973 to 1976. In November 1976 the programme was stopped in one flock but was continued in the other two, which...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Further studies in the control of ovine fascioliasis by strategic dosing​

A Whitelaw, A R Fawcett

• PMID: 7336552
• DOI: 10.1136/vr.109.6.118

Abstract​

Three hill sheep flocks were used to study the effect of the strategic use of rafoxanide to kill liver flukes before they attained the adult egg-laying stage. The programme ran from 1973 to 1976. In November 1976 the programme was stopped in one flock but was continued in the other two, which were subsequently merged. The results of frequent whole flock monitoring since 1976, described here, showed that in both flocks the level of infection, as judged by the examination of faeces for the presence of Fasciola hepatica eggs, remained at a very low level. It is postulated that the adoption of a strategic dosing programme over a period of three to four years would limit egg deposition on pastures close to eradication levels and that several years without needing to use anthelmintics against liver flukes would ensue.

'Definitive work', done in the Seventies, using a product that isn't even licensed in the UK these days?

 

[Nithsdale]

'Definitive work', done in the Seventies, using a product that isn't even licensed in the UK these days?

You can get it, but it is vet only. But I really doubt any vet would prescribe it

If you have Closantel resistance, you have Rofaxinide resistance - it seems to go hand in hand.
It is a poor product which offers no real alternative to controling fluke. Which is why for early/mid summer dosing against fluke it is recommended you use Zanil or Albendazole, as it should only be adult fluke you're dosing for (weather permitting).

 

[Agrivator]

'Definitive work', done in the Seventies, using a product that isn't even licensed in the UK these days?

It's the strategic dosing which is important. And one would obviously use the appropriate licenced product.

And you might scoff at work done in the seventies, but can you identify any major step forward in sheep husbandry since then - apart from scanning and the introduction of the Beltex.

 

[Stw88]

Dosed my ewes mid September with triclabendixzol, now I normally do them again this next week before putting the tups out. Reading the bottle it says do not redose for 10 weeks. Do I wait till mid December and give a closantle as usuall when ewes are turned back to the fell or bash on giving them another triclabendixzok?

 

[Nithsdale]

Dosed my ewes mid September with triclabendixzol, now I normally do them again this next week before putting the tups out. Reading the bottle it says do not redose for 10 weeks. Do I wait till mid December and give a closantle as usuall when ewes are turned back to the fell or bash on giving them another triclabendixzok?

Use Closantel mid December!

You shouldn't be dosing now at all, after using Triclabendazole in September

 

[M-J-G]

That's why I specified first dose in the op.

Of what though?
Some products won't do anything at the moment.

 

[glensman]

Of what though?
Some products won't do anything at the moment.

Triclabendixole (not much point dosing with anything else for the first dose in the autumn)

 

[M-J-G]

Triclabendixole (not much point dosing with anything else for the first dose in the autumn)

I'd agree, but it's surprising at how many don't realise that.
It will be down to how wet a summer you've had compared to normal

 

[Nithsdale]

Of what though?
Some products won't do anything at the moment.

Not strictly true.
All flukicides kill adult fluke - which will break the egg laying cycle. There are no products which "won't do anything" but you need to know what each product does, and what is required to get the same results as other products (this becomes even more critical when you have Triclabendazole resistance - or tolerance).

At this time of the year you should have the full age range of fluke, which obviously Triclabendazole is the only flukicide will kill all age groups with 1 dose.
If you have resistance - or tolerance - you need to switch to using Closantel, or up to now Trodax... but need to be aware these need a follow up dose 8 weeks later to do the same job as Triclabendazole

 

[M-J-G]

Not strictly true.
All flukicides kill adult fluke - which will break the egg laying cycle. There are no products which "won't do anything" but you need to know what each product does, and what is required to get the same results as other products (this becomes even more critical when you have Triclabendazole resistance - or tolerance).

At this time of the year you should have the full age range of fluke, which obviously Triclabendazole is the only flukicide will kill all age groups with 1 dose.
If you have resistance - or tolerance - you need to switch to using Closantel, or up to now Trodax... but need to be aware these need a follow up dose 8 weeks later to do the same job as Triclabendazole

Yes I get all that.

If a product only kills mature fluke and you don't have mature fluke, it will be doing nothing, which was my point.
Plenty of areas have had dry conditions until a month ago, so will be unlikely to have many matures yet.

 

[ladycrofter]

Yes from what we're seeing here, strategic dosing is the key. The ewes were in better nick after the first year of it, really picked up condition. Even more improvement this year (plus getting on top of a tick problem). We had a lot of sub-acute - poor fleece, slightly under-par. Rarely had sudden deaths.

As said, you must break the cycle but you have to understand the cycle first. Fluke can keep shedding eggs well into autumn. One of my apples trees has a blossom on it, so that's an indicator of the warmth still about!

Closantel will kill young and adult, but you need triclabenzadole to wipe out the full spectrum. My vet once said keep at it (with cattle) until Christmas.

We find our Sep/tupping doses fit our management system best. Wouldn't want to be hauling ewes in mid-tupping to give the 2nd dose.

 

[M-J-G]

Yes from what we're seeing here, strategic dosing is the key. The ewes were in better nick after the first year of it, really picked up condition. Even more improvement this year (plus getting on top of a tick problem). We had a lot of sub-acute - poor fleece, slightly under-par. Rarely had sudden deaths.

As said, you must break the cycle but you have to understand the cycle first. Fluke can keep shedding eggs well into autumn. One of my apples trees has a blossom on it, so that's an indicator of the warmth still about!

Closantel will kill young and adult, but you need triclabenzadole to wipe out the full spectrum. My vet once said keep at it (with cattle) until Christmas.

We find our Sep/tupping doses fit our management system best. Wouldn't want to be hauling ewes in mid-tupping to give the 2nd dose.

I assume your cattle are outside all winter?

 

[Nithsdale]

Yes I get all that.

If a product only kills mature fluke and you don't have mature fluke, it will be doing nothing, which was my point.
Plenty of areas have had dry conditions until a month ago, so will be unlikely to have many matures yet.

You need adult fluke to lay the eggs to get immature fluke... You will have adult fluke all summer - which is why Zanil and Albendazole are recommended for summer dosing as it is only adult fluke you are treating for.

You will have adult fluke almost year-round. But it is only in the Autumn to early spring you have all age groups (weather depending)

 

[shearerlad]

My vet gave me a fluke plan a few years ago.

August/weaning superverm
October/tupping TBZ
January flukiver
March/pre lambing Trodax

That has really thumped the fluke and helped with the condition and overall health of the flock