Folding combine headers

Selectamatic

Member
Location
North Wales
@old vin ag - we had a Victory with the 6-354 engine but as I posted in the other thread on these, at the right revs for the machine the engine ran very rough, when we got it running sweet the revs were much too high, was this common to the model do you know? When we swapped to the turbo engine it transformed the machine, I really liked it, the variable speed and all hydraulic controls were a revelation at the time.

@chaffcutter, we ran both 6-354 and T6-354 versions on 14 headers, we had no issues with the engine running roughly. The turbo version was a beast, there was little to touch it for output in a crop of ripe, standing wheat in its day...

@old vin ag has seen more Lely combines than me, he may be able to tell you better...
 

Niels

Member
I have some pictures will put on! It really was a mechanical marvel at that time, they were a proud company, but the competition was to great and there was no stomach for this folding table idea, can you imagine a 40 ft folding table now!!
They were very advanced machines in their day but that also made them much more expensive than the competition whilst also being a small brand. Probably what killed them, plus the people behind it never saw it as their core business? Also I don't believe they were well known for their reliability..?
 

old vin ag

Member
They were very advanced machines in their day but that also made them much more expensive than the competition whilst also being a small brand. Probably what killed them, plus the people behind it never saw it as their core business? Also I don't believe they were well known for their reliability..?
I have now noticed that the last part of my previous post is missing. To answer chaffcutter re his engine running roughly I never can across this in visiting at least 20/30 machines, so I can only assume it had a problem in the injector pump or Valve timing.
Regarding Niels assertion that they were very advanced machines in there day. This was something we never thought was the case working for the company. Of course the folding header was the selling point and the Hydrualic drive to the Pick up reels for step less speed control.Once you looked at the mechanism working back from the intake elevator it was pretty basic stuff. As the threshing mechanism had to be running to run the unloading auger this was a common gripe.if you were unloading on the headland or wanting to unload in a case of a drum jam or simular. Likewise the manual folding of the unloading auger when head to head with M F 500 users who enjoyed hydraulic operation.The crude way the returns were sent back into the area of the rear beater down a chute not in any way spread across the 54ins of the drum/ rear beaters width. Even a relivatively small volume combine producer like Kodel & Bohm( Kola) later to be the Deutz Fahr combine had a machine of simular size with Hydro Tranmission ( The Hydromat).Our biggest competition especially in Lincs and East Anglia was probably Claas as they have been now for many years.If we could demo and do the sales bit to a Giant Matador user we had a chance. Up against a Claas Senator things were a white knuckle debate, except if the Folding Header was an important consideration. The price of £5250 (1967/68 ) didn't seem to be a problem. 21machines sold& in use for the 1967 harvest to pretty well all areas the U K and Ireland. Each of these machines were returned to have modifications,about 80 some very big, some very small. Sales and machines delivered from October 1967 to September 1968 were 28 / of 14ft cut and 34 / 18ft machines. The next period was 1/14ft and 20/18ft cut sold. The whole thing pretty well collapsed from then on. The only year after that with more than a handful sold is 1977when the change was made to a Ford engine & Hydro drive. Of the 161 made to the end of production in September 1980 only 3 are shown as for Export. These were 2 / 14ft machine in 1971, sent with Grain tanks removed to become Bagger machines & sent to Greece. Only I of these got to work I believe because of so much problem, in fact the person sent out to it had his passport taken off him until thing were sorted out a bit, I keep thinking how it was. Men between the driver & the engine rushing around like Greece Lighting bagging off the grain. L O,L (sorry).The third machine a 18ftwent to Belguim (in directly) into the hands of the Claeys Bros (now of Course New Holland).
Although working on the Victory was the greatest experience of my working life, I do believe that sadly for a company that normally only made a relatively simple machine like a hay Tedder, it was just too big a mountain to climb.
 

jakeboy

Member
Location
somerset
I have now noticed that the last part of my previous post is missing. To answer chaffcutter re his engine running roughly I never can across this in visiting at least 20/30 machines, so I can only assume it had a problem in the injector pump or Valve timing.
Regarding Niels assertion that they were very advanced machines in there day. This was something we never thought was the case working for the company. Of course the folding header was the selling point and the Hydrualic drive to the Pick up reels for step less speed control.Once you looked at the mechanism working back from the intake elevator it was pretty basic stuff. As the threshing mechanism had to be running to run the unloading auger this was a common gripe.if you were unloading on the headland or wanting to unload in a case of a drum jam or simular. Likewise the manual folding of the unloading auger when head to head with M F 500 users who enjoyed hydraulic operation.The crude way the returns were sent back into the area of the rear beater down a chute not in any way spread across the 54ins of the drum/ rear beaters width. Even a relivatively small volume combine producer like Kodel & Bohm( Kola) later to be the Deutz Fahr combine had a machine of simular size with Hydro Tranmission ( The Hydromat).Our biggest competition especially in Lincs and East Anglia was probably Claas as they have been now for many years.If we could demo and do the sales bit to a Giant Matador user we had a chance. Up against a Claas Senator things were a white knuckle debate, except if the Folding Header was an important consideration. The price of £5250 (1967/68 ) didn't seem to be a problem. 21machines sold& in use for the 1967 harvest to pretty well all areas the U K and Ireland. Each of these machines were returned to have modifications,about 80 some very big, some very small. Sales and machines delivered from October 1967 to September 1968 were 28 / of 14ft cut and 34 / 18ft machines. The next period was 1/14ft and 20/18ft cut sold. The whole thing pretty well collapsed from then on. The only year after that with more than a handful sold is 1977when the change was made to a Ford engine & Hydro drive. Of the 161 made to the end of production in September 1980 only 3 are shown as for Export. These were 2 / 14ft machine in 1971, sent with Grain tanks removed to become Bagger machines & sent to Greece. Only I of these got to work I believe because of so much problem, in fact the person sent out to it had his passport taken off him until thing were sorted out a bit, I keep thinking how it was. Men between the driver & the engine rushing around like Greece Lighting bagging off the grain. L O,L (sorry).The third machine a 18ftwent to Belguim (in directly) into the hands of the Claeys Bros (now of Course New Holland).
Although working on the Victory was the greatest experience of my working life, I do believe that sadly for a company that normally only made a relatively simple machine like a hay Tedder, it was just too big a mountain to climb.
Many thanks for this posting!! Very informative, as you said the mountain was to steep to climb!! But they had a go and also more importantly they had Made in Great Britain stamped on them!! Also they had a lot of enthusiastic people on board and despite the odds stacked against them they probably wouldn't know then that it would all end as it did!!?
 

Niels

Member
I have now noticed that the last part of my previous post is missing. To answer chaffcutter re his engine running roughly I never can across this in visiting at least 20/30 machines, so I can only assume it had a problem in the injector pump or Valve timing.
Regarding Niels assertion that they were very advanced machines in there day. This was something we never thought was the case working for the company. Of course the folding header was the selling point and the Hydrualic drive to the Pick up reels for step less speed control.Once you looked at the mechanism working back from the intake elevator it was pretty basic stuff. As the threshing mechanism had to be running to run the unloading auger this was a common gripe.if you were unloading on the headland or wanting to unload in a case of a drum jam or simular. Likewise the manual folding of the unloading auger when head to head with M F 500 users who enjoyed hydraulic operation.The crude way the returns were sent back into the area of the rear beater down a chute not in any way spread across the 54ins of the drum/ rear beaters width. Even a relivatively small volume combine producer like Kodel & Bohm( Kola) later to be the Deutz Fahr combine had a machine of simular size with Hydro Tranmission ( The Hydromat).Our biggest competition especially in Lincs and East Anglia was probably Claas as they have been now for many years.If we could demo and do the sales bit to a Giant Matador user we had a chance. Up against a Claas Senator things were a white knuckle debate, except if the Folding Header was an important consideration. The price of £5250 (1967/68 ) didn't seem to be a problem. 21machines sold& in use for the 1967 harvest to pretty well all areas the U K and Ireland. Each of these machines were returned to have modifications,about 80 some very big, some very small. Sales and machines delivered from October 1967 to September 1968 were 28 / of 14ft cut and 34 / 18ft machines. The next period was 1/14ft and 20/18ft cut sold. The whole thing pretty well collapsed from then on. The only year after that with more than a handful sold is 1977when the change was made to a Ford engine & Hydro drive. Of the 161 made to the end of production in September 1980 only 3 are shown as for Export. These were 2 / 14ft machine in 1971, sent with Grain tanks removed to become Bagger machines & sent to Greece. Only I of these got to work I believe because of so much problem, in fact the person sent out to it had his passport taken off him until thing were sorted out a bit, I keep thinking how it was. Men between the driver & the engine rushing around like Greece Lighting bagging off the grain. L O,L (sorry).The third machine a 18ftwent to Belguim (in directly) into the hands of the Claeys Bros (now of Course New Holland).
Although working on the Victory was the greatest experience of my working life, I do believe that sadly for a company that normally only made a relatively simple machine like a hay Tedder, it was just too big a mountain to climb.
Thank you very much for the full story. It's certainly a very interesting read! Thanks for writing it down for us. I can't help thinking it would make a great story for Classic Tractor Magazine! @rorsday
 

old vin ag

Member
Thanks you jakeboy and Niels for your kind words and I am pleased you found the information interesting. Regarding your mention of Classic Tractor and Rory Day if you are able to access a copy of December 2008 issue 92,look in the section Reflections from page 97,the story,plus much more has been well written by Andy Collins.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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