Footpath problem

theboytheboy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Portsmouth

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pgk

Member
Took on some keep this week crossed by two paths first day landowner approached by 2 dog walkers alleging their dogs on leads touched electric fence and one had to go to vets. I had left path 15ft wide so more than enough space to avoid touching. Noted unit putting out 12000v, spoke to one of dog owners who told me dog couldn't read warning sign, explained to him I couldn't help with "stupid". Not a peep since, apparently both dogs (clearly not stupid) refuse to go into field, result!
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
What would the collective do about a person who constantly leave gates open, letting out the sheep, probarbly twice if not three times a week
I had issues with that , chain gates shut , wait till council complain tell them the issue and also tell them its a health and safety problem if stock get on a road , generally they sort a poper gate that shuts itself , or leave chain on until you get an enforcement notice then take it off for a few weeks then start the process again , ,
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
See my earlier reply. (1) You don’t lose a strip if, every few weeks you turn the cattle in there and get them to browse it down overnight. I generally choose a Sunday evening as very few people use it between, say, 7pm and 7am on Monday morning. I do also put up signs to say footpath temporarily closed.

(2) A couple of strands of high tensile and posts every 25 yards doesn’t take too much upkeep and, given that it’s stopped everyone from walking on the ground, it has more than paid for itself. (I also mob graze so it’s handy for that too!)

(3) See 1, above. Plus my footpaths are so heavily used that they don’t grow a lot...!!

I understand why you say what you do, but I’d have no hesitation in doing it again.

Think I might well be going that route on arable land transitioning into grazing using herbal leys with headland paths about and urban man not far away with their urban dogs..... Cheaper and stronger than plastic post and wire I suspect.

Out of interest, what type (single or multi strand) and diam wire do you use? What do you use on corners and for straining?
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just for those who were helping me out. Since complaining to the HSE, for what they said to me and placing a fee for intervention about the footpath, cattle and signs, no one has come back to me. Still waiting for an answer. 28th Oct I put in a complaint.
 

dudders

Member
Location
East Sussex
I would reject their fee if I disputed their decision. It was their choice to investigate, at someone else's request, so if you are confident you were within the law with the footpath, cattle and signs, you can refuse any charge. If you pay the fee, you admit liability and the dog owner can then come at you for his vet's bill + compensation for his hurt feelings. :censored: I would definitely be on the offensive here.

Keep chasing them about your complaint - every 2 weeks is reasonable, unless they've given you a date.
 

Tomjoad

Member
Location
Essex
Any developments on this story?
Not really.

She’s been generally sticking to the footpaths though I noticed she was walking the wrong side of the hedge last week right in front of me. I was with the kids so I bit my tongue.

There’s always (at least) one as we all know.
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi All, So My battle has gone like this...
Electric fence, took down, stolen, people complained about dogs getting shocked. Dog got kicked after telling the owner to get his 2 collie dogs on leads and stop chasing the cattle, trespasser goes towards feeding trough and felt threatened. got reported to H&S. 1 H&S officer has been told not to get involved after he came out and stroked the cattle and saw the dogs kissing the cows, next inspector from Chemical warfare from Birmingham came out! yep you are ready this right. Seen the cows, seen the farm and how tidy all footpaths are, kissing gates, signs, etc etc. Everything that the H&S guideline say to do. Which were up before all this crap starting happening. Told to fence of all the footpaths, had to put in an order to re-route the fence. Wants us to put a stock fence ( because electric gets stolen or disconnected) costing £22,000 because it has to be fenced both side, hedge one side? wants us to give 3m because of hedge growing. Been told if we don't do it and someone else complains, we go to prison! there will be no chance to go to court.. fees are £176 for 1 hour and 10mins, every time they spend time on it. so around the £15,000 for fees.
So this has now lead to me having heart problems with ecg, ct scans..
We are not going to let them win. We are not paying anything, we have done nothing wrong. So when the cows come back out. An electric fence will be put back up. we signs and 2m gap which is more than we have to 1.5m for a footpath. H&S said. I sign on my gate to the house.... If you have come to complain about your dog being shocked. you should read the signs. keep your dog on a short lead. They are out there again yesterday. one dog. 2 adults and 3 kids. dog not on lead no where near the family! out with the cows...

Let have a bit of piece as they will all be in. Here's to next year!!!

Take care all. xx
 

dudders

Member
Location
East Sussex
Hi All, So My battle has gone like this...
Electric fence, took down, stolen, people complained about dogs getting shocked. Dog got kicked after telling the owner to get his 2 collie dogs on leads and stop chasing the cattle, trespasser goes towards feeding trough and felt threatened. got reported to H&S. 1 H&S officer has been told not to get involved after he came out and stroked the cattle and saw the dogs kissing the cows, next inspector from Chemical warfare from Birmingham came out! yep you are ready this right. Seen the cows, seen the farm and how tidy all footpaths are, kissing gates, signs, etc etc. Everything that the H&S guideline say to do. Which were up before all this crap starting happening. Told to fence of all the footpaths, had to put in an order to re-route the fence. Wants us to put a stock fence ( because electric gets stolen or disconnected) costing £22,000 because it has to be fenced both side, hedge one side? wants us to give 3m because of hedge growing. Been told if we don't do it and someone else complains, we go to prison! there will be no chance to go to court.. fees are £176 for 1 hour and 10mins, every time they spend time on it. so around the £15,000 for fees.
So this has now lead to me having heart problems with ecg, ct scans..
We are not going to let them win. We are not paying anything, we have done nothing wrong. So when the cows come back out. An electric fence will be put back up. we signs and 2m gap which is more than we have to 1.5m for a footpath. H&S said. I sign on my gate to the house.... If you have come to complain about your dog being shocked. you should read the signs. keep your dog on a short lead. They are out there again yesterday. one dog. 2 adults and 3 kids. dog not on lead no where near the family! out with the cows...

Let have a bit of piece as they will all be in. Here's to next year!!!

Take care all. xx
'Chemical warfare' - what's that about?

Stock fence might be a solution, giving 1.5metres from the hedge, so long as you keep the hedge trim. I can't believe they've said 3 metres because of the hedge AND a double fence. Bonkers and right out of order.

As the extra fencing is only necessary because the public refuse to stick to the marked path and destroy your electric fence, you can ask your County Council Highways Department to finance it. They do have discretion to pay up in situations like this. I'd kick off by asking for the whole cost of a contractor to do the job.

Your HSE inspector sounds like a loose cannon, if what you've told us is correct. He could be exceeding his authority with some of his requirements. Have you made an appeal against this, in the proper way? You said earlier that you had a solicitor working on this - any progress? You definitely need qualified advice. If you're short on funds, you can get legal aid - specifically available for people who feel they've been mistreated by a public authority.

It's important not to do anything to aggravate the situation, like putting up rude signs - people will use that against you and it will look bad if you should end up in court. You have to keep calm and be seen to be acting in a responsible manner at every step.

May be an idea to get on to the local press (before your opponent does) and your MP.
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
Record what you've done by writing it down and taking photos. The guidance is quite clear that aside from cow with calves and bulls, there's usually no need to do anything extra with cattle and footpaths, but it should be risk assessed (write this down as well) (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17ew.pdf).

You should only be charged money for their time if you've materially broken the law. If that is likely, then think hard before writing an email or phonecall, because that may end up being charged as well. Ditto with appeals.

There may be a problem if the electric fences being stolen or damaged is foreseeable and the cattle do need to be fenced off from the public. Because you may be seen as not taking enough steps to deal with that foreseeable problem. Easiest solution to that I think would be regular checks (again - write them down or easier still, take a quick photo) on the fences as part of your daily stock check.

You certainly won't go to prison without a trial, I think you may have misunderstood what they were trying to say.

HSE group agriculture in with lots of other industries (https://www.hse.gov.uk/fod/about.htm) so you might have got someone who isn't very familiar with agriculture.
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
Place I have sheep at pretty much in birmingham has fenced 1.2m wide stock net and 2 barb full length of the foot path it looks ridiculous but it has actually kept them under control, highways made the landlord take the barb off and put it on the other side of the posts because the public were complaining
 

Grassman

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Stick to the rules on electric fencing and footpaths and they can't do anything.
That's what rules are for. Simple.
Chemical warfare? There must be more to this than you are telling us.
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
'Chemical warfare' - what's that about?

Stock fence might be a solution, giving 1.5metres from the hedge, so long as you keep the hedge trim. I can't believe they've said 3 metres because of the hedge AND a double fence. Bonkers and right out of order.

As the extra fencing is only necessary because the public refuse to stick to the marked path and destroy your electric fence, you can ask your County Council Highways Department to finance it. They do have discretion to pay up in situations like this. I'd kick off by asking for the whole cost of a contractor to do the job.

Your HSE inspector sounds like a loose cannon, if what you've told us is correct. He could be exceeding his authority with some of his requirements. Have you made an appeal against this, in the proper way? You said earlier that you had a solicitor working on this - any progress? You definitely need qualified advice. If you're short on funds, you can get legal aid - specifically available for people who feel they've been mistreated by a public authority.

It's important not to do anything to aggravate the situation, like putting up rude signs - people will use that against you and it will look bad if you should end up in court. You have to keep calm and be seen to be acting in a responsible manner at every step.

May be an idea to get on to the local press (before your opponent does) and your MP.
our mp is ozone friendly so no chance( they don't want meat!) too many cows farting.. I have asked and wont get involved. local council were supposed to do a letter drop, back 6 months ago! We got a quote from a contractor and they said that that was steep.. but they for get we have no water supply in some of the fields if we fence it off and its a spring fed! I have put up really friendly posts. been on our local fb page. If you can imagine a lovely tidy farm, hedges kept neat, kissing gates, signs, everything that H&S tells you to do.. then yep that's up. We have had a new estate of over 400 homes built and every person seems to have got a dog in the last few years!! i have photos of them trespassing and the inspectors have witnessed it too. the teams call from H&S and Agriculture sector was there too, H and S didn't say a lot. agriculture man said it is only 1.5m highways said 3m! We have appealed twice. through H and S.
I have posted country code. laminated posters. people around here now are horrible, sad faced, politically correct, telling us what they can and can't do. the First H and S man, i am not allowed contact with, the last one has now left. You could tell he just doesn't agree with the system.

When we were in the meeting, we said we are not doing anything wrong and do more than most. We said we will take them to court and fight it. They said if we haven't put anything in place and something happens then we both go to prison.

We have decided to put up electric fence again, 3 strands, 1.5m signs saying on short lead, and a massive sign on the gate. Please dont' come knocking on the door if you or your dog have had an electric shock of the fence. Sign are there for you to read and obey. If you don't like my cows mooing, sheep baaaing dog barking, muck spreading, muddy footpath, then dont live in the country.
Also on the gates. You are entering private land with a right to walk the footpath only ( no point in sayin PROW) Trespassers will be prosecuted. DAS law is pretty good to get information, as NFU and other won't help because it's already happened.
If the trespasser is accused of aggravated trespassing, then the maximum punishment is three months’ imprisonment, whereas first-time offenders are likely to receive a fine between £200-£300. If the trespasser is accused of trespassing with the intent to commit theft, then the punishment can be up to seven years’ imprisonment.
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
Who told you that???? Are you on a suspended sentence or something??

If it was a comment by an HSE officer then its highly unprofessional.

Defiantly get the best legal advice you can.
Clean people no prison sentences. it's unbelievable.. they are saying because of the incedences that people have got trampled in other parts of the uk, they need to protect them. I said what about protecting us farmers and our animals..
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
Place I have sheep at pretty much in birmingham has fenced 1.2m wide stock net and 2 barb full length of the foot path it looks ridiculous but it has actually kept them under control, highways made the landlord take the barb off and put it on the other side of the posts because the public were complaining
you are not allowed barbed wire. that would be great because, it would keep them off climbing the fence. They moaned here about barbed wire being on a gate. I said the only gate with barbed wire on it, is in a field with no footpath!,
 

tessflower42

Member
Livestock Farmer
Stick to the rules on electric fencing and footpaths and they can't do anything.
That's what rules are for. Simple.
Chemical warfare? There must be more to this than you are telling us.
i wish honestly.. the world has gone mad. thats why i have got so angry and upset. if we had done something wrong, then we would hold our hands up. Anyone if you are in the area of GL10 come and see for yourselves..
 

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