just from having a series problem myself.when doing your fec count.was it guaranteed liver fluke was there a rumen fluke problem.did you do a worm count on the thin dying sheep.do you bolus or drench your ewes for vitamin and trace elements.ill give you my experience of this problem when you say what you have tested .have you blood tested the poor ewes for cob ,sel,iod,copper.thanks
For fluke sake Help!!
- Thread starter trewern
- Start date
Chasingmytail
Member
- Location
- Newport, SE Wales
Where in Cardiff are you - I assume close to the estuary? Im further up on hill ground we have never had issue with fluke. Look into rotation and leaving ground for at least 90 days. Closing up areas of ground close to river or wet areas. I agree do some bloods and soil testing and advice (you can get through farming connect near enough free). Also good farm only vets has suited us - we use Tyndales from over Gloucester
Chasingmytail
Member
- Location
- Newport, SE Wales
Do you run separate flocks? Do you have health plan? Are all your flocks with fluke? Did you breed the flock or do you think they have come in resistant?
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
is harvested grass infectious ? hay / silage , just wondering if anyway to clean the ground to some extent
This problem, as always, needs a holistic management solution rather than just another bottle of a different Flukicide from the array of Flukicides.
There is a lot of info out there on rotation, watercourse fencing, drainage to reduce snail habitat, pond/confined water treatments, strategic Fulkicide resistance/use etc, etc. Ask you Vet to get involved or find one that will.
There is a lot of info out there on rotation, watercourse fencing, drainage to reduce snail habitat, pond/confined water treatments, strategic Fulkicide resistance/use etc, etc. Ask you Vet to get involved or find one that will.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Like most, we had terrible trouble with fluke in 2012/13. I took to the farm in 2012, so it was a steep learning curve here. Through cleaning ditches out, filling/fencing dewponds, putting a few water troughs in instead and sorting neglected drains, I have managed to get to the stage where I don’t need to fluke (according to cupra-antigen testing).
However, it’s not possible/financially viable on a lot of farms. All this talk of not grazing wet areas, or leaving 90 day resting periods, are just pie in the sky for many stock farms in the wetter regions of the UK.
Exactly this.
We need a system where we test before every fluke/worm dose to check they are needed and then a follow up to make sure its worked. These products in the hands of the trade is a disaster. God help Zolvix/Startect. Spend the money on some testing and decent vet advice and stop misusing these products. I'd like to see them all made prescription only and have some decent supervision over their use, but people get very excited if I say that.
Even with good sheep vets engagement is reasonably poor.
GrannyAching
Member
- Location
- Mynyddoedd Preseli
Plus one for the coproantigen testing. My sheep have just come back with readings of <1 again. I am shocked and amazed but will give it another six weeks and test again. I'll be interested to see how many livers get condemned when I send fat ones off.
Dynamo
Member
- Location
- Isle of Lewis
Had a huge problem last year, turned out we had triclabendazole working at 80% efficiency, used flukiver and it sorted things out, this year used triclabendazole September and dosing now with closantel (flukiver, solantel) ewes are looking mint and ready for tupping, as I understand it the resistant fluke after triclabendazole are getting hit by the closantel when they mature a little
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Any reason why you used triclabendazole in September and not just closantel twice?
Dynamo
Member
- Location
- Isle of Lewis
Mix it up and not help resistance, anything left by triclabendazole would have been mopped up by closantel, effectively killing the triclabendazole resistant fluke?
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Would it not mean that for six weeks the sheep would only be passing resistant eggs? Unless you were sure the resistant fluke that survived were all early immature.
Dynamo
Member
- Location
- Isle of Lewis
The eggs are only layed by adult fluke, theoretically the closantel should kill them just before they mature and therefore kill the fluke before they can pass on the resistant eggs? Ideally I should have dosed the two closer together but work constraints wouldn't allow, apparently you can't dose the two at the same time as the two ingredients can react.
Coximus
Member
I've had fluke resistance on brought in draft ewes, and the advice I was given was generally conflicting, but I went with the trainee vets idea - As I had access to some winter stubbles and grazing due to go back into arable -
Penned them on a 3ac're hardstanding storage area and wormed them with a tric wormer, held them their for 10 days to pass out worms onto ungrazed ground where it will be scraped up.
Then they were put out onto barley volunteers for 2 weeks before being checked, they were not shedding eggs any more, but 2 had died and a few were still strugling, PM showed semi and mature flukes in low numbers - thus any eggs due to shed would be resistant.
Closantel dosed at 4 weeks, and kept on grass till 6 weeks, showing no signs, PM on a sheep that died of stupidity showed no sign of any fluke, but extensive damage to liver but recovering - at 12 weeks the lot were found with no fluke eggs, and moved onto normal permant pasture.
A key part of the strategy was having somewhere safe for them to pass resistant eggs where they can be removed, without passing it onto my existing sheep flock or contaminating the ground, and being able to rotate at each stage of the worming process - ideal on ground going into 7 years of cropping - ensuring that the eggs at each stage were left behind and
Penned them on a 3ac're hardstanding storage area and wormed them with a tric wormer, held them their for 10 days to pass out worms onto ungrazed ground where it will be scraped up.
Then they were put out onto barley volunteers for 2 weeks before being checked, they were not shedding eggs any more, but 2 had died and a few were still strugling, PM showed semi and mature flukes in low numbers - thus any eggs due to shed would be resistant.
Closantel dosed at 4 weeks, and kept on grass till 6 weeks, showing no signs, PM on a sheep that died of stupidity showed no sign of any fluke, but extensive damage to liver but recovering - at 12 weeks the lot were found with no fluke eggs, and moved onto normal permant pasture.
A key part of the strategy was having somewhere safe for them to pass resistant eggs where they can be removed, without passing it onto my existing sheep flock or contaminating the ground, and being able to rotate at each stage of the worming process - ideal on ground going into 7 years of cropping - ensuring that the eggs at each stage were left behind and
Thanks for all reply’s. all are well appreciated but just to give a better understanding this had been a issue I have been aware of for a number of years as regards and find the situation constantly challenging ! Over the last couple of years having lost stock over the winter having and having vet post-mortems carried out confirmed acute and Cronic fluke.
in September 16 as recommended the previous year 15 by the vets we treated with a triclabendazole to target early fluke. however we continued to lose stock into the winter 16. further post-mortems revealed acute cronic liver fluke so further recomendations buy the vet was possible resistance to triclabendazole but this could not be confirmed until futher testing at that point of time. recommendations we’re to treat using flukivor for 3 ocassions at 6 week intervals because of the Heavy burden and rate of re infection until stock was housed at lambing .
At this point of time I was convinced there was resistance but had no hard evidence of at what level so after being intouch the manufacture of the drench and having talks regarding resistance and effectiveness of products we became part of a nationwide parasite watch program to try an make us and other livestock farmers locally and nationally understand a little more about times of year levels types of worms and parasites all our results are available to view along with others. We now work along side Zoetis with the help of there vets to try to establish and remedy any issues within test results.
https://www.zoetis.co.uk/livestock-farming/parasite-watch-map.aspx ( farm located in cardiff)
All our treatments are based on detailed analysis of test results which I hope to help slow the resistance or any further resistances this helps me establish burdens and effectiveness of products along with only treating when needed and a saving on products along with labour.
Into this year copa antigen test at lambing showed 4 after the final flukivour No flukeicides were used from April to September in the understanding that levels of infection and lifecycle were low at these times of year (also following vets plan written previous year) no further tests were carried out until August of this year were results showed high levels. triclabendazole was also used this September on the basis of the copaantigen test which was of the scale I was also trying to establish the level of resistance to triclabendazole a test carried out three weeks later (results currently not available online) indicated a high rise inlevel of burden showing clear signs of high resistance. flukivor has now been used on the basis of the increased result further tests will be carried out in 3weeks to find out the level of burden and effectiveness of flukivour
As for stock and ground the groups consist of 220 ewes 160 ewe lambs 100 weathers 20 tups and teasers we have four blocks of ground totalling 210 acres which all have natural water causes and tend to get really wet this time of year through to spring. there is no way of keeping stock off ground as that’s all that is available drainage can and is being improved but takes time.
I think I’m just looking for the advice of the fellow stock keepers expecally those with known or possible resistance to try and compare their treatment procedure and schedule to see what can can’t work and just know there’s others having to deal with the same things I guess. It’s hard enough and costly enough without these problems this can add huge costs to production to prevent losses and maintain a healthy flock.
Once again all help and advice appreciated
in September 16 as recommended the previous year 15 by the vets we treated with a triclabendazole to target early fluke. however we continued to lose stock into the winter 16. further post-mortems revealed acute cronic liver fluke so further recomendations buy the vet was possible resistance to triclabendazole but this could not be confirmed until futher testing at that point of time. recommendations we’re to treat using flukivor for 3 ocassions at 6 week intervals because of the Heavy burden and rate of re infection until stock was housed at lambing .
At this point of time I was convinced there was resistance but had no hard evidence of at what level so after being intouch the manufacture of the drench and having talks regarding resistance and effectiveness of products we became part of a nationwide parasite watch program to try an make us and other livestock farmers locally and nationally understand a little more about times of year levels types of worms and parasites all our results are available to view along with others. We now work along side Zoetis with the help of there vets to try to establish and remedy any issues within test results.
https://www.zoetis.co.uk/livestock-farming/parasite-watch-map.aspx ( farm located in cardiff)
All our treatments are based on detailed analysis of test results which I hope to help slow the resistance or any further resistances this helps me establish burdens and effectiveness of products along with only treating when needed and a saving on products along with labour.
Into this year copa antigen test at lambing showed 4 after the final flukivour No flukeicides were used from April to September in the understanding that levels of infection and lifecycle were low at these times of year (also following vets plan written previous year) no further tests were carried out until August of this year were results showed high levels. triclabendazole was also used this September on the basis of the copaantigen test which was of the scale I was also trying to establish the level of resistance to triclabendazole a test carried out three weeks later (results currently not available online) indicated a high rise inlevel of burden showing clear signs of high resistance. flukivor has now been used on the basis of the increased result further tests will be carried out in 3weeks to find out the level of burden and effectiveness of flukivour
As for stock and ground the groups consist of 220 ewes 160 ewe lambs 100 weathers 20 tups and teasers we have four blocks of ground totalling 210 acres which all have natural water causes and tend to get really wet this time of year through to spring. there is no way of keeping stock off ground as that’s all that is available drainage can and is being improved but takes time.
I think I’m just looking for the advice of the fellow stock keepers expecally those with known or possible resistance to try and compare their treatment procedure and schedule to see what can can’t work and just know there’s others having to deal with the same things I guess. It’s hard enough and costly enough without these problems this can add huge costs to production to prevent losses and maintain a healthy flock.
Once again all help and advice appreciated
Also all stock is bolused twice a year along with any stores or weathers crept over the winter I try to keep a fairly good rotation most stock are not kept on the same feild or ground any more than a fortnight and usually don’t return for 3 to 4 weeks winter being the exception where stock moves are carried out every couple of days sometimes daily depending on grass levels I try to keep the stock on feilds that were cut in the summer and of the wetter ground in the winter but all pretty wet when you live in Wales
If you have a lambing shed is there any way you can house for a significant period of winter?
from my own experience when testing for fluke where you testing for worms.
this is just advice from what has worked for me.I would use levafas diamond next dose its a different type of drench.covers adult fluke rumen fluke and wormer.and test 14 days after dosing.ive been on a vet health plan,this drench in rotation works for me. I know what you are going through very disheartening.give it a go nothing to lose,update me how you get on.
this is just advice from what has worked for me.I would use levafas diamond next dose its a different type of drench.covers adult fluke rumen fluke and wormer.and test 14 days after dosing.ive been on a vet health plan,this drench in rotation works for me. I know what you are going through very disheartening.give it a go nothing to lose,update me how you get on.
Chasingmytail
Member
- Location
- Newport, SE Wales
3-4 week rotation is not long enough by far - I think the rule is 90 days min.