For those farming less than 200 acres.

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
The things is as i read it the current BPS is split accross 3 funds so ELMS are only one of it so the max we can get will be significantly reduced once BPS goes completely.
The original idea was roughly equal shares into SFI, LNR & LR.

That might have to change if the SFI rates have to rise much though.

The environmental NGOs (NT, Rivers Trusts etc) will fight that hard I suspect as they see LNR & LR as future income streams.
 

Treg

Member
Location
Cornwall
So that isn't at the £58/ Ha quoted above ? What £/Ha is that ?
£40/ha for intermediate plus £500 for livestock welfare.
It already costs me £500 for health tests & review so at least that cost will now be covered. The £40 / ha , in the first year a good half of that will be costs ( seed & soil tests) but those costs will drop in the following years so year 2 (2023) looking at a total payment cut of £700 ( 25% cut of BPS but extra Sfi payment ) but I'm assuming another round of Sfi payment options by then, hopefully on hedges .
I actually can't see this is to bad for small to medium livestock farms depending abit on whether seeds/ soil test / vet prices rise.
 

Treg

Member
Location
Cornwall
The things is as i read it the current BPS is split accross 3 funds so ELMS are only one of it so the max we can get will be significantly reduced once BPS goes completely.
Yes it's as the Bps cuts get bigger whether the SFI payment rates & options will keep up, on larger farms where the cuts are deeper quicker then there will be a significant cut in payments.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've done the sums for here, already have herbal leys ✔ already do health review & testing so considering next years BPS cut I will still be £500 better off 😀
I'm happy with that, was expecting deep cuts to farm income but looks like I'll still be able to feed the kids(y)
What do herbal leys offer the environment that farming the pasture that grows doesn't?
SFI is or will be part of ELMs
Surely the most environmentally friendly thing to do as part of an environmental land management scheme is to go with what grows anyway rather than something that has to be bought in with all the environmental costs in its production.
So where is the big gain
 

Wombat

Member
Location
East yorks
Yes it's as the Bps cuts get bigger whether the SFI payment rates & options will keep up, on larger farms where the cuts are deeper quicker then there will be a significant cut in payments.
On a small mixed farm at the lowest rate of BPS cuts with arable and pp, the rates of SFI already mean a cut for us next year even if we put all our area into a split of the intermediate schemese regardless
 
What do herbal leys offer the environment that farming the pasture that grows doesn't?
SFI is or will be part of ELMs
Surely the most environmentally friendly thing to do as part of an environmental land management scheme is to go with what grows anyway rather than something that has to be bought in with all the environmental costs in its production.
So where is the big gain
I think the idea of herbal leys is great, but I am not convinced that if it is planted by ploughing/cultivating there would be any gain at all for the environment/climate above leaving permanent pasture and letting it evolve naturally with a changed grazing regime.
 

delilah

Member
@Janet Hughes Defra
As above. The whole point of PP, environmentally, is that it comprises those species which over decades have become dominant due to being best suited to the area.
Are we reading this correctly ? You want us to use public money to burn fossil fuel to introduce alien species ?
 

delilah

Member
As you said its done anyway so why the need to pay

Because we will go tits up without it. Because it delivers the greatest public good. Because if Defra are to have a snowballs chance of there being the skills around to deliver this public good they have to reverse the decline in critical mass.
 
Location
Devon
I've done the sums for here, already have herbal leys ✔ already do health review & testing so considering next years BPS cut I will still be £500 better off 😀
I'm happy with that, was expecting deep cuts to farm income but looks like I'll still be able to feed the kids(y)

Thanks for sharing your calculation.

Given that BPS hasn't had an inflationary rise since set in 2014? .... Is that a real increase?

You also got BPS without any added costs, reduction in productivity and without the risks to your business though the t&c's that you will have agreed to under sfi.
Do you really consider you will be better off?
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
I think the idea of herbal leys is great, but I am not convinced that if it is planted by ploughing/cultivating there would be any gain at all for the environment/climate above leaving permanent pasture and letting it evolve naturally with a changed grazing regime.
what about the seed ? if that was planted by ploughing/cultivating then harvested and packaged and shipped.
why is it assumed that to do the best thing from an environmental point of view that we have to change anything ? are we all bad ? is it just to get us to spend money ?
Do they think that everyone that doesn't have herbal leys must have monoculture ryegrass or some such ?
what is a herbal ley for this purpose anyway ? would it count if I was to throw around a bit of sage seed ?
 

Treg

Member
Location
Cornwall
Thanks for sharing your calculation.

Given that BPS hasn't had an inflationary rise since set in 2014? .... Is that a real increase?

You also got BPS without any added costs, reduction in productivity and without the risks to your business though the t&c's that you will have agreed to under sfi.
Do you really consider you will be better off?
Yes :)
Beef finished price for me ( Organic) up £200/ head since last year .
So if my outside/ state income remains roughly the same ( not counting £500 either way ) I'm as happy as farmer ever can be;):unsure:
 
what about the seed ? if that was planted by ploughing/cultivating then harvested and packaged and shipped.
why is it assumed that to do the best thing from an environmental point of view that we have to change anything ? are we all bad ? is it just to get us to spend money ?
Do they think that everyone that doesn't have herbal leys must have monoculture ryegrass or some such ?
what is a herbal ley for this purpose anyway ? would it count if I was to throw around a bit of sage seed ?
can I use my einbock to scratch in some herbal ley seeds after silage I wonder, or would the seeds not be aggressive enough to compete with the existing ley?
 
I think the idea of herbal leys is great, but I am not convinced that if it is planted by ploughing/cultivating there would be any gain at all for the environment/climate above leaving permanent pasture and letting it evolve naturally with a changed grazing regime.
I can see high intensity grazing (mob grazing) would be good for the environment, but it costs quite a bit in infrastructure, however I just had an email from the progressive farming company (Kiwitech equipment) to say there are grants available, don't know if they are in Wales too? I would need a few more posts/poly wire and pipes to move from rotational grazing to mob grazing, so maybe next spring.
 
Location
Devon
Yes :)
Beef finished price for me ( Organic) up £200/ head since last year .
So if my outside/ state income remains roughly the same ( not counting £500 either way ) I'm as happy as farmer ever can be;):unsure:

But doesn't that neglect the fact that outside/ state income is reducing in value, while increasing in costs to meet its requirements and the income foregone, rising?

I expect your organic status would be a critical factor?
 

Treg

Member
Location
Cornwall
But doesn't that neglect the fact that outside/ state income is reducing in value, while increasing in costs to meet its requirements and the income foregone, rising?

I expect your organic status would be a critical factor?
Hopefully the next 2 years it doesn't seem to far out even with the extra cost ( as I said I'm already paying £500 for health review & tests so it is a £500 benefit to me ) The soil testing is once every 5 years & technically we're meant to be doing them any way :rolleyes: & I already have herbal leys so short term the SFI replaces BPS for me, it does depend on future Sfi add ons from 2023 on & you are right, critically whether being Organic is allowed in the scheme, CS had very few Organic grassland options.
 

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