Ford 3 Cylinder in Sanderson Forklift - Water in Sump

[DrWazzock]

Year 1978 ish.
Loading up last load of beet today and noticed gauge a bit high and could see steam and smell antifreeze.
The rad was more or less empty and it took about 6 litres to refill to finish loading.
Closer inspection when finished revealed a lot of steam and water coming out the oil breather pipe.
Sump oil level very high would indicate water going into sump.
I normally check the water level "now and again" and it hasnt had a sudden loss for the last 40 years, so whether is got low due to neglect then over heated then lost all the water, or whether it lost all the water then overheated I can't be sure.

Anyway, its another mess.
Anybody know the failure point that lets the water into the sump on these engines? Head gasket, liner bottom end seals, porous liner, cracked block or head? What's most likely? Do they have wet or dry liners or no liners?
Weigh it in or rebuild engine?
It is well past its sell buy date but a handy maneouverable machine in tight spaces.
I have a manitou MLT626 as well so I am not stuck, but the Manitou is no spring chicken either.

 

[7610 super q]

Sounds like it's gone porous. Sump will be full of yogurt ?
Short motor from Timik, or S/H engine from MJ Robinson......
When mine went porous, water was pouring into the sump faster than you could fill the rad. I filled it with 2 bottles of head gasket sealant, followed the instructions religiously and it did the trick. Light use without probs for 8 years now. Cost £80. Pays your money, and takes your choice. Don't scrap it, far better machines than Manipoos.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

It will be a porous block, letting water through to sump,
Will need line bored, liners pressed in bored to standard size piston
£500 should cover the bits and can be done in situ,

@john1394 will know better

 

[DrWazzock]

Thank you very much.

 

[DrWazzock]

Sounds like it's gone porous. Sump will be full of yogurt ?
Short motor from Timik, or S/H engine from MJ Robinson......
When mine went porous, water was pouring into the sump faster than you could fill the rad. I filled it with 2 bottles of head gasket sealant, followed the instructions religiously and it did the trick. Light use without probs for 8 years now. Cost £80. Pays your money, and takes your choice. Don't scrap it, far better machines than Manipoos.

Yes, after I topped it up I finished loading the lorry and the level was low again, but not leaking externally but in to sump.

 

[db9go]

Yes, after I topped it up I finished loading the lorry and the level was low again, but not leaking externally but in to sump.

Dont just think pores block there are other thing to check like core plugs in the head under the rocker shaft, oil cooler check it out first

 

[7610 super q]

Yes, after I topped it up I finished loading the lorry and the level was low again, but not leaking externally but in to sump.

Mine had developed a hole below the liner IIRC. Local fitter took a look at it, tut tutted, and wanted to fit a NH engine cos they don't make Ford engines anymore. Cost £7k. Left it, Googled a bit, and found replacement short engines for £2.5k. Left it, Googled a bit more, and came across Steel seal head gasket sealant. Took the plunge, bought 2 bottles, and never looked back. Like you, my Sanderson is only a back up, probably does less than 50 hours per year. I wouldn't recommend head gasket sealant for a front line machine. At £2650 for a completely refurbished engine from Timik, it's not the end of the world for something that'll last another 40 years ? As I said, pays your money, and takes your choice.

 

[Flat 10]

Core plug? Be nice if it was. That sudden could be?

 

[forblue]

Steel seal good used on two engines but if coolant has long life a/f, drain, flush out, refill water only run 30m, let it cool then use for a day, drain, refill drained a/f good to go.........

 

[multi power]

Yes, after I topped it up I finished loading the lorry and the level was low again, but not leaking externally but in to sump.

Drop the sump off, pressurise rad and you will see where it's leaking, could be the head, but most likely porus block, as Pennine ploughing said get it bored and liners pressed in, be better than new

 

[MF-ANDY]

I wouldn't bore and sleeve. Did a 6610 years ago only for to go porous in the camshaft gallery a few years later

 

[colhonk]

Had a 3cyl ford digger engine go porous into one of the bores. bored and sleeved,sorted. The 4cyl digger went porous into the main oil gallery, new block job.

 

[Happy hillbily]

Bugger, this would have fitted the bill, oly just gone the other day.
A Cnh engine too

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[DrWazzock]

Thanks.
The way I feel at the moment I am looking at a recon engine from somebody like Timik, hopefully some warranty. I don't really want to enter the unknown territory of reboring porous blocks only to find it develops another leak or some other fault, given its age.

Its used a lot for grain and beet loading. Must have loaded 30,000 tons of beet since 1980 so it hasn't done too badly.

 

[multi power]

Thanks.
The way I feel at the moment I am looking at a recon engine from somebody like Timik, hopefully some warranty. I don't really want to enter the unknown territory of reboring porous blocks only to find it develops another leak or some other fault, given its age.

Its used a lot for grain and beet loading. Must have loaded 30,000 tons of beet since 1980 so it hasn't done too badly.

But I new block is likely to go porus as well at some stage
Liners are the only thing that works

 

[DrWazzock]

But I new block is likely to go porus as well at some stage
Liners are the only thing that works

I don't know much about porous blocks, being more of Perkins man myself, but what happens if the porous area is for example in the bit between the cylinders in the bottom of the block. Surely relining the cylinders won't stop a leak like that?

Come to think of it I have a nice 3 cylinder Perkins in good order in my "donor" beet harvester. Maybe I could transplant it in, but no doubt adaption wouldn't be that simple.

 

[forblue]

The reason some ford engine's went porous was when block was cast they did not know how thick or thin the metal was around the bores, so some engine's never had a problem while other's did, ford bought out a water filter kit to try and help along with a bottle of additive, did help a lot but never cured completely until the blocks were changed and the blast furnace and coke ovens were closed and it was the 3 and 4cyl engines that suffered, the fw tractors had cummins engine and we had a test kit to check ph of coolant never so on ford tractors............... .

 

[Flat 10]

Why do you need the forklift? You have a manitou? Just thinking of all the options.

 

[TripleSix]

The porosity is caused by cavitation which eats away the metal.

Coolant additives help.
This is also why some fords were fitted with coolant filters, these condition the coolant.

 

[DrWazzock]

Why do you need the forklift? You have a manitou? Just thinking of all the options.

That is a consideration. The forklift turns tighter in confined areas and is nippier but the manitou will do the job. Having two old ones means that if one breaks down we can resort to the other to finish the loading. It's all tyres and batteries though, and insurances, shed room etc. The manitou is 30 years old and not that reliable. It's transmission oil leaked into the rad. Couldn't get a new rad with heat exchanger or a repair so fitted an independent air cooled oil cooler. Not sure it's really up to spec for cooling the oil but it's been OK so far. Probably on borrowed time though. Transmission sounds terrible on the road.

A recon engine might be £3k. And it's back in action doing a job that a £30k machine would do, even if a bit more slowly. Just feels like a waste to weigh it in, but I have a shed full of stuff like that and the list is getting longer!