Ford 3 Cylinder in Sanderson Forklift - Water in Sump

[Sharpy]

Before you start throwing time and money at it please check or bypass the engine oil cooler, on fords of that age the oil cooler was an oil pipe through the bottom of the radiator, wouldn't be the first time a short motor was fitted in a hurry that still had water mixing with oil.....

 

[MF-ANDY]

Before you start throwing time and money at it please check or bypass the engine oil cooler, on fords of that age the oil cooler was an oil pipe through the bottom of the radiator, wouldn't be the first time a short motor was fitted in a hurry that still had water mixing with oil.....

Good thought but on most Sandersons that cooler was used to cool the transmission oil

 

[DrWazzock]

Does the engine come out without much ado? Do I need to remove the rear axle (steering axle) and counterweight?
Torque converter model.

There are a few short motors on eBay, supposedly manufactured using modern techniques.

Anyway thanks all for the pointers. Will see what local fitters think as well.
If I was retired it would be a nice project, trouble is all my machinery is turning into projects about 15 years too early!!

 

[Sharpy]

Good thought but on most Sandersons that cooler was used to cool the transmission oil

Every day a school day! Was there an engine oil cooler?

 

[Mursal]

Not usually a cooler unless the engine has a turbo.

 

[DrWazzock]

It would appear the transmission oil flows through the radiator bottom tank for cooling.
Drained the engine oil. A lot of water in there. Refilling with some cleanish but secondhand engine oil so I can get the loading shovel off and move it into the workshop via the pressure washer. Looks like the counterweight woiuld come off without much bother then withdraw the engine backwards and upwards.

Looking at a re bore and new liner in situ, but it depends which cylinder it is and ease of access. I have probably warped the head as well with running low on water but could get that checked and done up.

Other options are a new short block but all the timing and stuff would need redoing and really it's a full rebuild.
Secondhand complete engines available on eBay but who knows what issues they have.

Investigating and preparing.

 

[startinghandle]

I remember someone not too far away putting a reconditioned exchange engine into a Ford 550 digger and it was faulty so he had to remove it at his own expense
I would never fit exchange or even s/h
Engine .... but I would contact emmark to find out cost of brand new engine and I'd put old engine in a
Machinery auction
Has the engine been overhauled
Before?

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

After a wash off and back at workshop, drop oil, remove radiator pipes, bung up bottom pipe on engine with a bit of wood and jubilee clip, remove sump, get a bit of wood size of top hose, drill a hole in it to fit airline to it fill with water and pressure up water in block, if it's leaking out of a piston bottom, it's a liner needed, if out of camshaft, a block needed,
If it's a liner you will see which one it is, remove head and take pistons out, inspect that liner, if rotten then do them all in situ,
Little tip, I have been known to pop the camera down in tight places and photo it, them blow picture up and can see better, my phone is 20 mega pixel, and very detailed, yet good at very close up work

 

[multi power]

I don't know much about porous blocks, being more of Perkins man myself, but what happens if the porous area is for example in the bit between the cylinders in the bottom of the block. Surely relining the cylinders won't stop a leak like that?

Come to think of it I have a nice 3 cylinder Perkins in good order in my "donor" beet harvester. Maybe I could transplant it in, but no doubt adaption wouldn't be that simple.

That is why I said take the sump off and identify exactly where it is leaking from, it would not be the first time people have bored and lined them for the problem to be elsewhere
When mine went porus we dropped the sump and pumped up the rad and could see water running down the bore
If it was a tractor doing a lot of work I would have said fit a powerstar engine, absolutely brilliant engine

 

[DrWazzock]

Took the rocker cover off. Filled the radiator. Pressurised the radiator to about 20 psi. No leaks out of the head core plugs under the rocker shaft.
Took the sump off, pressured the radiator, turned each piston in turn to the top, no water leakage from the cylinders but only pressurised it for about 5 minutes each cylinder. I will give them a better looking at tomorrow and see if the water level in the rad goes down.

Starting to wonder if I did just neglect the water level and it got low and warped the head or cracked it or maybe blew the head gasket, getting water into an oil way/return.

There was definitely a lot of water in the sump when I drained the oil so there is a leak somewhere.

 

[norse]

I'm sure I have heard of someone with the same problem filling the cooling system with oil!

 

[sahara]

In the back of the Classic Tractor there is usually an advert from a engineer specialising in porous ford engine problems. R H Taylor Engineering 07721330589.

When our 5000 went porous he was able to bore and then line the offending cylinder in situ, with the engine still in the tractor, minus the sump.

I think from memory that he is based in South Devon so a physical visit from him might not be possible, however he seemed to be very knowledgeable, so a phone call might help, and I think he also supplies the parts that you would need.

Hope it helps.

 

[DrWazzock]

No leakage overnight from bottom end. Cooling system still full. A bit frustrating.
Leaving it to one side as need to get on with other stuff.

 

[Cowcalf]

That is a consideration. The forklift turns tighter in confined areas and is nippier but the manitou will do the job. Having two old ones means that if one breaks down we can resort to the other to finish the loading. It's all tyres and batteries though, and insurances, shed room etc. The manitou is 30 years old and not that reliable. It's transmission oil leaked into the rad. Couldn't get a new rad with heat exchanger or a repair so fitted an independent air cooled oil cooler. Not sure it's really up to spec for cooling the oil but it's been OK so far. Probably on borrowed time though. Transmission sounds terrible on the road.

A recon engine might be £3k. And it's back in action doing a job that a £30k machine would do, even if a bit more slowly. Just feels like a waste to weigh it in, but I have a shed full of stuff like that and the list is getting longer!

build a bigger shed !

 

[Happy hillbily]

I remember reading somewhere someone with a similar problem to you, and couldn't find the leak, untill he tried it with hot (near boiling) water, the heat expanded the block just enough to find the leak

 

[DrWazzock]

I remember reading somewhere someone with a similar problem to you, and couldn't find the leak, untill he tried it with hot (near boiling) water, the heat expanded the block just enough to find the leak

Could well be the case. To be thorough, I think I will put the sump back on with a few bolts. run up with a few litres of secondhand oil in it, till it's warm, take sump off, have a look and repressurise radiator.

I really ought to compression test the cylinders through the injector holes as well while it's still warm. Might tell me something.

Anyway, it's never straightforward so it's being parked up until I get some time to deal with it.

 

[DrWazzock]

In the back of the Classic Tractor there is usually an advert from a engineer specialising in porous ford engine problems. R H Taylor Engineering 07721330589.

When our 5000 went porous he was able to bore and then line the offending cylinder in situ, with the engine still in the tractor, minus the sump.

I think from memory that he is based in South Devon so a physical visit from him might not be possible, however he seemed to be very knowledgeable, so a phone call might help, and I think he also supplies the parts that you would need.

Hope it helps.

There is man fairly local to here who would do it, but rightly he says we need to know where the leak is before considering a liner.

 

[DrWazzock]

Relined my Lamborgini 105 when the cylinders went porous only for the transmission to fail 2 years later.

Starting to think maybe best to get rid and not waste any more time and money on it. I have urgent farming stuff to do, and these things just soak up large amounts of hours,money and energy chasing problems round and round.

Bit of a dilemma. If the fault had made itself know clearly then it would be easier.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

put antifreeze in it, it finds all the leaks

 

[Mursal]

Might be where the piston stopped in the offending cylinder. So crank over to a new spot and see does it leak.