Ford 5000 Pto clutch

[John from Skibb]

Does anyone know what the issue is when the Pto won't disengage fully? It's been happening in our pre force for years. There is no power in it but it stays spinning slowly.

Any help appreciated,
John

 

[Flatlander]

The pto brake is fried or the clutch plates have been heated and warped. New clutch and brake time.

 

[keith armitage]

As Flatlander says, brake pad in the pre force tracror was a lot smaller than the later ones. Does it stop when the tractor warms up?
On mine I just turn on the pto when I start it from cold, after about 10 mins I turn it off and the pto stops turning. I live with it this way!
If you leave it spinning with the lever in the off (forward) position this engages the brake pad and wears it out even faster. This is why I turn on the pto when the tractor is cold. Your clutch pack just might be ok still. What oil are you using in the back end? A lighter grade of oil can sometimes help stop it happening.

 

[John from Skibb]

It happens hot and cold, it's been happening for years so I quess the brake is completely gone. Should have used your suggestion keith and left it turned on when not in use. I'm using universal oil.
I'll open it and change the brake and I'll see what the clutch looks like but maybe I should just do both while I'm in there.

The shaft can be stopped by hand but it's still causing issues on some implements so I gotta do something. I assume it's not possible to fit the later size brake pad?

 

[keith armitage]

Sorry John it's about 25 years since I did my clutch pack. I don't know if the later pto brake will fit. All I do remember is that the discs have a very slight dome on them, make sure the dome goes towards the front of the tractor. Have you taken the lift cover off before?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Its not a big job iirc , i would get done asap if i were you ,i got caught up (boiller suit) in the spinning stub once in the same scenario/same tractor .... and the stub wouldnt stop spinning for force...

 

[ford 7810]

If I start My tractor from cold with PTO in neutral it will remain stopped. If I put it in gear it won’t stop again until engine is turned off then ok again and works properly when hot . I did but a new brake pad in it as it was like yours before.the newer tractors from about 1972/73 is a different set up it has a brake band around the PTO clutch housing.if you notice the PTO lever work the other way around IE forward for on.

 

[John from Skibb]

I hadn't opened the top cover before, until just now...

The serrations for the brake are almost gone. Not sure how pronounced they should be

 

[keith armitage]

To get that shaft out open the cover (4 bolts) over the pto stub, but I reckon you have probably got that far already. You might as well replace the little pipe coming up from the hydraulic pump while you are in there too.

 

[John from Skibb]

That's a pretty miserable size of a brake pad, considering the friction of the clutch. It is worn a little though so a change might help.

The clutch plates look pretty good though. I was kinda hoping they would be worse... Still, the fact that they are old maybe their not disengaging as much as a new one would. If they provide any resistance at all that little pad has no chance

 

[ford 7810]

There was quite a few early 5000s around here and none of the PTO brakes work properly lime spreader man used to put a hay bob tine or similar through the PTO shaft to stop it trailing lime down the road.not much help

 

[John from Skibb]

Just to update, I decided to reassemble what was there for now. The clutch plates are not warped and look in very good condition, the brake pawl has plenty life left in it still, despite some wear. I cleaned the spring and made sure it was working right. I also filed the blurred edges of the gear inside the clutch plates so they might disengage more freely.

Based on what you guys have said and from what ive read elsewhere it seems that a couple of hundred spent in parts wouldn't solve the problem for long anyway. It does improve when the oil is warm so I'll accept that for now.

Sometime I'm less busy I might see if I can make an external brake that I can attached to the spline on the Pto shaft. There is about a 1/2'' of space inside of where a Pto shaft attaches.

 

[keith armitage]

What oil are using in the back end John? A lighter grade of oil will reduce the friction between the discs and just might stop it for the summer anyway. I know it sounds daft, but even parking it so that the sun shines on the back end in the morning makes a difference. It’s a bit like parking the combine facing east so that the windscreen is clear in the morning!

 

[John from Skibb]

I had 10w40 for years but I recently switched to universal which I think is 10w30 so that might help yes. Spread slurry recently and after the first 3 loads the pump was strong enough to hold the Pto which isn't bad. There is a fair bit of torque in it when it's cold alright

 

[Captain Sensible]

If the shaft can be stopped without too much load (by hand??? ), chances are your clutch plates are OK. Just replace the brake pad ..... Not too expensive & likely to solve the problem. Same component was a regular problem on Ford 4000s & all their later derivatives.

 

[John from Skibb]

Without too much load as in with the tedder on you can easily hold a pike or whatever against the tines and it stops, or in the field just drive into a swath and it stops with the smallest of resistance. I'm sure if its worth changing the brake Captain Sensible based on what others have said here and from opening it and looking at it, it seems perfectly fine just a bad design