Foresight Obesity System Map

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
I remember, about 30 years ago, when I flew into the USA, I went for a coffee in the LA airport, and thought, I am worn out, I could do with a coffee to perk me up, so ordered a large coffee, expecting to get a mug, I think they served me a pint of coffee!!!
In 2004 in West Yellowstone I cleared a rather large plate of smoky barbecue ribs and the waitress replaced it with another foc..... :oops:
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Portionn sizes in the US are not for the fainthearted. Dining in a well renowned waterfront restaurant in San Francisco a party sat down at the next table and one man ordered two mains. This apparently could not have been uncommon as the waiter bought a special side table to fit beside him.
Another time in Tampa the steaks were up to 32 ounces. We shared one between the three of us.
 
Location
Ceredigion
Making oven chips anywhere near as appetising as deep fried chips they need to coat them in a product which gives the chip a crisp coating. They are still a potato chip inside with a smattering of coating which must be healthier than the deep fried version.
Multiple cooking of chips actually done properly will produce a delicious chip as served up by the very top restuarants. They are normally cooked 3 times.
I personally would not want to be eating chips of any description more than once a week
I am often surprised now on my cycling wanderings going into a pub for a beer and a sarnie how what comes back is a large baguette with an equally large side serving of chips, sometime there is also a couple of leaves of salad with it if we are lucky😂
It is the same in the coffee shops with scones having tripled in size in the last ten years, and people wonder why the nation is getting fat!
You go down to Aberaeron most nights of the week massive queue at the chippy , Same at our local at Brighton
 
Location
Ceredigion
Zoe Harcombe has a good explanation for this. Cholesterol molecules gather round weak spots in your arteries to try and heal, thus cholesterol is present where arteries block up. It's a bit like blaming the fire brigade for starting fires, as they are always present at them.
WCRF logo World Cancer Research Fund
s Zoe Harcombe’s advice based on solid scientific ev…

Is Zoe Harcombe’s advice based on solid scientific evidence?​

fuits and vegetables: probably reduce cancer risk
You may have seen an article in the Daily Mail about a new book by Zoe Harcombe on the obesity epidemic.
The article runs through Zoe’s ‘myth-busting’ conclusions.
Looking at her overall message, Zoe basically disagrees with the advice you would get from mainstream health organisations. The result of this is that people are likely to become confused.
This is why it’s unhelpful for this sort of advice to be presented as an authoritative voice.
The article is about obesity generally and not particularly about cancer prevention.
But I thought it would be useful to pick out a couple of her points that do relate to cancer and have a look at what the science actually says.
And the fact is that Zoe’s conclusions that relate to cancer, at least as presented in the Mail, just aren’t supported by the overall body of scientific evidence.
This is why it is best to ignore the advice and stick to credible sources of health information from charities like World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF), or from NHS Choices.

“No evidence for any cancer benefit” from “five a day”​

Our 2007 review of the research on cancer prevention was the most comprehensive of its kind ever published.
This found that eating fruit and/or vegetables probably reduces the risk of cancers of the mouth, pharynx, larynx, oesophagus, lung and stomach.
Our advice was also backed up by a study of half a million people in Europe published this year.
But even aside from any direct effect fruits and vegetables have on cancer risk, they make us feel full and hence helps stop us from overeating.
This means that people who eat plenty of them are less likely to be overweight. This is important because, after not smoking, maintaining a healthy weight is the most important thing you can do for cancer prevention.

“If you do extra exercise, it will be counterproductive because you will get hungry”​

Again, this is not right. In fact, the opposite is the case.
Our 2007 Report found convincing evidence that being physically active helps to avoid weight gain and that having an inactive lifestyle is linked with weight gain.
It is true that high levels of activity do increase appetite. But this also means you can eat more calories without gaining weight and the chance of overeating is less than for someone who is inactive.
But another point is that physical activity is not just important for its effect on our weight. Being regularly physically active also has a direct effect on reducing cancer risk.
There is strong evidence that being physically active helps to prevent cancers of the bowel, postmenopausal breast and endometrium (womb lining).

The problem with bad advice​

I think it’s a shame Zoe has decided to give this kind of advice.
The likely effect is that people will either follow advice that’s not based on solid evidence or else become confused about conflicting advice.
But the reality is that there will always be people who give quirky health advice that is contradicted by the evidence.
And this is where the Daily Mail comes in.
To be fair, the Mail has made it clear that Zoe’s claims are “controversial”. But I would argue that publishing a big feature about them has given them a credibility that they simply don’t deserve.
There is already enough confusion about dietary advice. It’s a shame that in this case the Mail has decided to publish an article that has added to it.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
For some reason I was under the impression that McD’s fries were made mainly from maize at one point (in the US at least) and that’s why they were called fries rather than chips. No idea where I got that from and it sounds like it’s an urban myth or I’m misremembering at best. But that’s where my original comment came from, soz.
 
Location
Ceredigion
For some reason I was under the impression that McD’s fries were made mainly from maize at one point (in the US at least) and that’s why they were called fries rather than chips. No idea where I got that from and it sounds like it’s an urban myth or I’m misremembering at best. But that’s where my original comment came from, soz.
.

So what's your view on frying in oil and in this case deep fat frying ?
 
For some reason I was under the impression that McD’s fries were made mainly from maize at one point (in the US at least) and that’s why they were called fries rather than chips. No idea where I got that from and it sounds like it’s an urban myth or I’m misremembering at best. But that’s where my original comment came from, soz.
I am sure that I read, the frying, then freezing, then frying again, changes the Carbs in the Potato, can't remember where I read it, but it changes it I believe poss into sugar? And I think certainly gives more of a sugar hit (with corresponding insulin response) than normal spuds. I may be wrong, correct me if you know better?
 

Clive

Staff Member
NFFN Member
Location
Lichfield
I am sure that I read, the frying, then freezing, then frying again, changes the Carbs in the Potato, can't remember where I read it, but it changes it I believe poss into sugar? And I think certainly gives more of a sugar hit (with corresponding insulin response) than normal spuds. I may be wrong, correct me if you know better?


Freezing starch turns it to sugar (nature's anti-freeze). this is why cold stored potatoes have darker fry colour than fresh and when managing stores you go no cooler than required as there are fry colour bonuses for lighter colours

(I used to grow for Mcain and Mcdonalds and managed cold stores)
 
Freezing starch turns it to sugar (nature's anti-freeze). this is why cold stored potatoes have darker fry colour than fresh and when managing stores you go no cooler than required as there are fry colour bonuses for lighter colours

(I used to grow for Mcain and Mcdonalds and managed cold stores)
And of course that makes McDonalds fries absolutely delicious
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
So what's your view on frying in oil and in this case deep fat frying ?

Why are you interested in the views of an armchair warrior? Personally, I try and stay away from any deep fried foods as much as possible, with only limited success. I was fortunate to be raised without the presence of a deep fat fryer in the kitchen. I've never been much of a fan of chips or anything tatie related, except hash browns which are my kryptonite. It isn't the deep frying per se that I have an issue with it's what oils are being used to make these foods. Invariably restaurants etc use the cheapest oil they can get away with ( the processors definitely do), and liquid rather than solid fats. They are then happy to keep using the same oil over and over, which can result in cancer-causing chemicals to be formed as well as oxidising the oil.

Two problems with seed oils irrespective of that; first is the process to make them, involving high temperatures and known cancerous chemicals, resulting in a product that is highly prone to oxidation which is a problem in itself. Plenty of Youtube vids showing this if you're interested. Second problem is that most of them have a fatty acid profile that gives cause for concern. Too high a ratio of omega 6 to omega 3. Taking the sunflower oil from that list of McD ingredients earlier; 71% linoleic acid (onega 6) 1% alpha-linolenic acid (omega 3), along with 16% monounsaturated and 12% saturated. We are advised (by those who have doen the research) that we should have a ratio of 1:1. 71:1 seems to have overshot the mark a bit. Also we require small amounts of omega 3 and 6, not the medium to large amounts most of us are unwittingly eating regularly. Just have a look at any processed food packet or box, seed oils feature on every label along with all manner of starches and sugars. I choose to avoid these things where possible.

We are fortunate in the UK in that the go-to seed oil here for the processors is rapeseed (canola). It is mostly monounsaturated (61%) with a 2:1 omega 6:3 ratio (21%:11%). If you're careful you can buy it cold-pressed, same as olive oil (which is the best oil). Americans aren't so lucky. Their 2 biggest oils are soya oil and corn oil, both have over 50% omega 6. Imagine trying to avoid that.

But, to answer your question, I use lard or beef dripping or butter for pan frying. Too much saturated fat for you though Derek.

BTW that graph I posted earlier in the thread about linoleic acid indicates how much of a problem this is becoming. Oh, and I would never advocate anyone believes anything I post, I'm not an expert. But I would recommend people do their own research for themselves. Start with Ancel Keys and take it from there.
 
Location
Ceredigion
Why are you interested in the views of an armchair warrior? Personally, I try and stay away from any deep fried foods as much as possible, with only limited success. I was fortunate to be raised without the presence of a deep fat fryer in the kitchen. I've never been much of a fan of chips or anything tatie related, except hash browns which are my kryptonite. It isn't the deep frying per se that I have an issue with it's what oils are being used to make these foods. Invariably restaurants etc use the cheapest oil they can get away with ( the processors definitely do), and liquid rather than solid fats. They are then happy to keep using the same oil over and over, which can result in cancer-causing chemicals to be formed as well as oxidising the oil.

Two problems with seed oils irrespective of that; first is the process to make them, involving high temperatures and known cancerous chemicals, resulting in a product that is highly prone to oxidation which is a problem in itself. Plenty of Youtube vids showing this if you're interested. Second problem is that most of them have a fatty acid profile that gives cause for concern. Too high a ratio of omega 6 to omega 3. Taking the sunflower oil from that list of McD ingredients earlier; 71% linoleic acid (onega 6) 1% alpha-linolenic acid (omega 3), along with 16% monounsaturated and 12% saturated. We are advised (by those who have doen the research) that we should have a ratio of 1:1. 71:1 seems to have overshot the mark a bit. Also we require small amounts of omega 3 and 6, not the medium to large amounts most of us are unwittingly eating regularly. Just have a look at any processed food packet or box, seed oils feature on every label along with all manner of starches and sugars. I choose to avoid these things where possible.

We are fortunate in the UK in that the go-to seed oil here for the processors is rapeseed (canola). It is mostly monounsaturated (61%) with a 2:1 omega 6:3 ratio (21%:11%). If you're careful you can buy it cold-pressed, same as olive oil (which is the best oil). Americans aren't so lucky. Their 2 biggest oils are soya oil and corn oil, both have over 50% omega 6. Imagine trying to avoid that.

But, to answer your question, I use lard or beef dripping or butter for pan frying. Too much saturated fat for you though Derek.

BTW that graph I posted earlier in the thread about linoleic acid indicates how much of a problem this is becoming. Oh, and I would never advocate anyone believes anything I post, I'm not an expert. But I would recommend people do their own research for themselves. Start with Ancel Keys and take it from there.
I was interested on the views of all the Flat Earthers on here, I'm surprised how many there are ,🤣 ,
 

PhilipB

Member
I bet his diet was very healthy, I am guessing smoking was more of a problem then, but as we have given up smoking, we have started eating a much poorer diet, and taking less exercise too (thankfully farm work has been mechanised!)

I'm not sure the farming diet 1850-1950ish was that great.

Loads of "processed" meat (bacon and sausages), and salt, as a preservative.

Plus puddings as standard, every main meal, and cake, and loads of jam / fruit preserved with sugar.

They were obviously burning off calories with hard work, and staying warm in cold houses.

Plus only eating three /four times a day and getting properly hungry in between, not "snacking"
 

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