Foresight Obesity System Map

Starch is the molecule used by plants to store sugars. Sugars are a problematic molecule because if you try to store a lot of them in one place, they have a big osmotic potential and attract water. Plants rely on a steady flow of water (transpiration stream) so they can't afford to have this flow disrupted. So they convert sugars into long chains of sugars. This is starch. Starch is the plant version of their universal storage molecule. It is more compact and more importantly has no effect on water potential.

So a potato contains a lot of starch, you could eat one raw and it would never taste sweet. If you don't believe the above, buy a bunch of the greenest bananas you can. Eat one on the day of purchase and it won't taste of anything because they are loaded with starch. Leave the remainder to ripen to their normal yellow colour and in the corresponding time period the bananas will have liberated or broken down their starch molecules to liberate the corresponding sugars hence they will be much much sweeter.

Your body however, has the enzymes to break down starches (they would be far too large to absorb in your gut otherwise) so you should in reality be careful about how much starch- potatoes, grains and rice you are consuming the same as anything else.

Interestingly, and to keep it agricultural, the above is why I never subscribed to the idea of 'high sugar grasses'. An amazing piece of marketing spiel but nonsensical.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
Starch is the molecule used by plants to store sugars. Sugars are a problematic molecule because if you try to store a lot of them in one place, they have a big osmotic potential and attract water. Plants rely on a steady flow of water (transpiration stream) so they can't afford to have this flow disrupted. So they convert sugars into long chains of sugars. This is starch. Starch is the plant version of their universal storage molecule. It is more compact and more importantly has no effect on water potential.

So a potato contains a lot of starch, you could eat one raw and it would never taste sweet. If you don't believe the above, buy a bunch of the greenest bananas you can. Eat one on the day of purchase and it won't taste of anything because they are loaded with starch. Leave the remainder to ripen to their normal yellow colour and in the corresponding time period the bananas will have liberated or broken down their starch molecules to liberate the corresponding sugars hence they will be much much sweeter.

Your body however, has the enzymes to break down starches (they would be far too large to absorb in your gut otherwise) so you should in reality be careful about how much starch- potatoes, grains and rice you are consuming the same as anything else.

Interestingly, and to keep it agricultural, the above is why I never subscribed to the idea of 'high sugar grasses'. An amazing piece of marketing spiel but nonsensical.
And if that starch has been processed heavily then it will break down in the gut even faster and might almost as well be sugar at the point you eat it.
 
And if that starch has been processed heavily then it will break down in the gut even faster and might almost as well be sugar at the point you eat it.

It basically becomes sugar as you eat it anyway- one of the enzymes in human saliva is amylase and it works very very fast. Chew bread for a bit and you will soon find the taste changes.

Highly processed foods are a problem because they do not take long to digest, meaning you can fit more food in and don't feel satisfied for as long.

Eating food very quickly also means that you subvert the feedback mechanisms in your body- after about 20 minutes of beginning to eat a meal your blood sugar will rise, this alleviates hunger. If you eat the entire meal in under 20 minutes this process has no time to work.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
It basically becomes sugar as you eat it anyway- one of the enzymes in human saliva is amylase and it works very very fast. Chew bread for a bit and you will soon find the taste changes.

Highly processed foods are a problem because they do not take long to digest, meaning you can fit more food in and don't feel satisfied for as long.

Eating food very quickly also means that you subvert the feedback mechanisms in your body- after about 20 minutes of beginning to eat a meal your blood sugar will rise, this alleviates hunger. If you eat the entire meal in under 20 minutes this process has no time to work.
But highly processed carbohydrates cause much higher spikes (and so much more inflammation). Also, studies using new continuous blood glucose monitors are finding the blood sugar response varies greatly between people, even eating exactly the same meal.

Tim Spector says (in his book "spoon fed") that his own blood glucose spikes twice as high, and for longer, than his wife's after both eating the same breakfast of toast and marmalade. It's dangerous for him but not for her.
 

tepapa

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Wales
Been to a kids party today where the party food was all processed [email protected]
We had pizza, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, biscuits, crisps and cake. The kids all enjoyed themselves but I thought of this thread and thought this is what were teaching our kids to eat.
To be fair I have no idea what you'd feed kids that was healthy in this situation except fruit and then how any would eat that?
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
Just on hunger arising from the different breakdown speeds of starches and other constituents: it's all here. Apols for posting again.

Processing etc will alter the shape of the carb curve. It can be lowered and lengthened by leaving the food to be proper food instead of making it into crap. The area under the curve will be the same but the difference in hunger will be noticeable, as will the avoidance of insulin resistance. Of course, eating a decent amount of fat instead of being scared of it will work wonders for hunger and insulin resistance.
 

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DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
Been to a kids party today where the party food was all processed [email protected]
We had pizza, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, biscuits, crisps and cake. The kids all enjoyed themselves but I thought of this thread and thought this is what were teaching our kids to eat.
To be fair I have no idea what you'd feed kids that was healthy in this situation except fruit and then how any would eat that?
This a big big problem. In fairness I can remember going to parties as a child and getting rubbish to eat, difference was that I was being fed wholesome cooked real food the rest of the time. How many kids can say the same these days? This is something that France have got sooo right, we need to learn from the fact they haven’t lost interest in real food like we apparently/undoubtedly have.
 
Been to a kids party today where the party food was all processed [email protected]
We had pizza, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, biscuits, crisps and cake. The kids all enjoyed themselves but I thought of this thread and thought this is what were teaching our kids to eat.
To be fair I have no idea what you'd feed kids that was healthy in this situation except fruit and then how any would eat that?

Party food years ago was supposed to be just that. Sugary processed exciting looking stuff, that was eaten at parties as a treat from our everyday, healthy plain home cooked food. Crisps, cake, jelly, sweets - (nobody every ate the sandwiches) - to kids raised on basic fare a chance to indulge. The problem comes when it's an everyday diet instead of just the occasional one off.
 
But highly processed carbohydrates cause much higher spikes (and so much more inflammation). Also, studies using new continuous blood glucose monitors are finding the blood sugar response varies greatly between people, even eating exactly the same meal.

Tim Spector says (in his book "spoon fed") that his own blood glucose spikes twice as high, and for longer, than his wife's after both eating the same breakfast of toast and marmalade. It's dangerous for him but not for her.
This Israeli company do personalised micro biome mapping with a corresponding (machine learned) algorithm to recommend diet, however not available in the UK, only Israel and USA

 
Location
Ceredigion
I'm going to throw a few ideas to see what the opinions are , to lose weight you need to lower sugar and carb intake , so it lowers blood insulin, if you have a high blood insulin spikes from over eating carbs and sugars you cannot utilize your fat resevers , as a high insulin prevents this , ?
For exercise you need to build that up over time to train your body , so it's not overly dependant on sugar and carbs
 
I'm going to throw a few ideas to see what the opinions are , to lose weight you need to lower sugar and carb intake , so it lowers blood insulin, if you have a high blood insulin spikes from over eating carbs and sugars you cannot utilize your fat resevers , as a high insulin prevents this , ?
For exercise you need to build that up over time to train your body , so it's not overly dependant on sugar and carbs
I think we get high insulin because the body stops responding to it, so we keep producing more to get a response, so I think you are right, obesity is a hormonal issue from insulin resistance. The problem I have is I love chocolate and carbs, every meal has to have potatoes or rice or pasta.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
I think we get high insulin because the body stops responding to it, so we keep producing more to get a response, so I think you are right, obesity is a hormonal issue from insulin resistance. The problem I have is I love chocolate and carbs, every meal has to have potatoes or rice or pasta.
The body becomes resistant to its own insulin. Bit like an alcoholic becomes resistant to alcohol, they can drink you under the table and still function. Just don’t compare livers. Some doctors will tell you we produce more as a response but that isn’t actually correct. Plenty of info out there once you start looking properly.

This is exactly how we develop type 2 diabetes, even thin people can develop it. It is also how T2 diabetics can recover by learning what is causing the insulin resistance in the first place. By changing their diet they become more sensitive to their own insulin once more, which has the happy coincidence of reducing their weight. It isn’t the losing of the weight which makes them recover it’s the change in diet that just happens to make them lose weight.
 
Location
Ceredigion
I also read , yes I've been on Google , that when man first evolved fat was his food store for when he went hunting for days on end without food , he had no issues losing weight , burning fat, as he was not eating Processed Sugar's and Prosessed Carbs , it's not straight forward though as the body as many tricks to stop you burning fat reserves
 

cows sh#t me to tears

Member
Livestock Farmer
I also read , yes I've been on Google , that when man first evolved fat was his food store for when he went hunting for days on end without food , he had no issues losing weight , burning fat, as he was not eating Processed Sugar's and Prosessed Carbs , it's not straight forward though as the body as many tricks to stop you burning fat reserves
Also he had to walk or run everywhere....
Heard the other day that Aboriginal hunters used to chew a root of some particular plant that suppressed their hunger for days at a time when they went hunting or traveling.
 
Location
Ceredigion
Thought you weren’t interested in this flat earth stuff Derek?
Note I have made no comment about hi fat diets
My interest is cycling, training my body to unilise body fat so I don't need to carry pocket fulls of food with me , the fat one is interesting, It don't seem to trigger insulin so you can lose weight on a high fat diet , I'm just reading this so excuse me if it's completely wrong , my personal view is that high fat diets can be dangerous to your health , mine especially, family history ,
 

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