Forming cartels against supermarkets may be legal

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Interesting subject in today's increasingly consolidated supply chain.

Goverment interference in market forces has always been exploited which diluted the ideals of the legislation. Macron's idea of farmers beig helped to "negotiate" prices with the French supermarkets in the wake of the butter supply problem recently helps focus how goverments could help producers help themselves.

There's some background reading on the anti - trust Sherman and Clayton Acts in America. These had the undesired negative effects of hampering farmer co-operatives. The Capper-Volstead Act 1922 tried to right some of the wrongs;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capper–Volstead_Act
http://www.uwcc.wisc.edu/info/capper.html
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
Seems interesting. I noticed meetings were held in secret, good or a bad thing?
That the meetings were held at all was a good thing.
I liked this bit:
"The plan shattered the age-old defense among retailers that farmers were already sufficiently protected by national laws and didn’t need a raft of new rules from Brussels to bolster them.

In a stinging broadside against supermarkets, the Irish commissioner asserted it was time to give farmers, who already receive €58 billion a year in EU subsidies, a “fair share of the pie.”

And also
“We are not creating further imbalances, but trying to create a balance between all actors,” he explained.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
I'll admit I was quite looking forward to other TFF members comment on this news. There doesn't seem to be much interest though :scratchhead:

probably as most ff members where lost when it was suggested they visit politico.eu website... its foreign.... its European... urrgg

I did get past that, just... this bit didnt inspire enthusism

"Seizing on the new pro-farmer zeitgeist, French President Emmanuel Macron also announced on October 11 that he would introduce a national law early next year to allow farmers to demand that industry buy from them at the cost of production."
Well better than making a loss I suppose....


I cant see consumers will be happy to pay the current level of taxes that effectivily subsidise food production and then also pay more for food so farmers can farm without subs.. there will be riots!
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
probably as most ff members where lost when it was suggested they visit politico.eu website... its foreign.... its European... urrgg

I did get past that, just... this bit didnt inspire enthusism

"Seizing on the new pro-farmer zeitgeist, French President Emmanuel Macron also announced on October 11 that he would introduce a national law early next year to allow farmers to demand that industry buy from them at the cost of production."
Well better than making a loss I suppose....


I cant see consumers will be happy to pay the current level of taxes that effectivily subsidise food production and then also pay more for food so farmers can farm without subs.. there will be riots!


It seems odd: on one hand farmers are saying they're not getting enough for their produce (as a livestock man I agree with this) but in the other they appreciate most of the world already are struggling to buy food and won't pay anymore for it (which I also agree with).

Bearing the above in mind isn't it worth trying to come up with a solution for our expensive farming habit?
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I have said it before: form selling groups.

Pay a small fee and sign control of your entire wheat crop or milk supply to me. I collect two dozen other farmers who agree to the same. I then negotiate to sell the supply to the most favourable bidder.

Just don't call them Dairy Farmers of Britain or Viking Cereals. Fonterra or Arla maybe.
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
probably as most ff members where lost when it was suggested they visit politico.eu website... its foreign.... its European... urrgg

I did get past that, just... this bit didnt inspire enthusism

"Seizing on the new pro-farmer zeitgeist, French President Emmanuel Macron also announced on October 11 that he would introduce a national law early next year to allow farmers to demand that industry buy from them at the cost of production."
Well better than making a loss I suppose....


I cant see consumers will be happy to pay the current level of taxes that effectivily subsidise food production and then also pay more for food so farmers can farm without subs.. there will be riots!
@farmerm I think that the idea was that they cut subsidies and expected that the bargaining power would allow more of the profit to go to farmers.

Think of it perhaps another way, if the farmers held the strings the government might actually have to pay the supermarket to stay solvent.... I think that there is a strong argument that government subsidies are currently enriching supermarkets not farmers and that this might balance the power.

Food would cost the same.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
@farmerm I think that the idea was that they cut subsidies and expected that the bargaining power would allow more of the profit to go to farmers.

Think of it perhaps another way, if the farmers held the strings the government might actually have to pay the supermarket to stay solvent.... I think that there is a strong argument that government subsidies are currently enriching supermarkets not farmers and that this might balance the power.

Food would cost the same.

I think Tesco made £1bn on £54bn turnover last year. Did you only make £2k on every £100k you turned over last year? Broadly speaking If supermarkets have to pay more for food it gets passed on to the price on the shelf. The cartel administration would also add an extra level of cost to the system. It might benefit some sectors such as dairy but it won't help all, particularly for products with strong import competition
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
I think Tesco made £1bn on £54bn turnover last year. Did you only make £2k on every £100k you turned over last year? Broadly speaking If supermarkets have to pay more for food it gets passed on to the price on the shelf. The cartel administration would also add an extra level of cost to the system. It might benefit some sectors such as dairy but it won't help all, particularly for products with strong import competition
But Tesco don't have less than the minimum wage, and a backlog of capital investment to undertake - this is the true cost of business which many farmers don't receive/cost. Certainly some on here would be better off with minimum wage than removal of subsidies - although admittedly not all.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
But Tesco don't have less than the minimum wage, and a backlog of capital investment to undertake - this is the true cost of business which many farmers don't receive/cost. Certainly some on here would be better off with minimum wage than removal of subsidies - although admittedly not all.
I'm not arguing that. My response was to the half baked notion that farmgate prices can significantly increase to replace subs without an increase in food prices on the shelf.
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
I think Tesco made £1bn on £54bn turnover last year. Did you only make £2k on every £100k you turned over last year? Broadly speaking If supermarkets have to pay more for food it gets passed on to the price on the shelf. The cartel administration would also add an extra level of cost to the system. It might benefit some sectors such as dairy but it won't help all, particularly for products with strong import competition
But that 1 billion is after all staff costs including the top execs and all pensions etc, if you calculated the wage/pension and holiday costs etc of your avarage farmer you would find many dont make hardly anything
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
But that 1 billion is after all staff costs including the top execs and all pensions etc, if you calculated the wage/pension and holiday costs etc of your avarage farmer you would find many dont make hardly anything
The bulk of the staff are close to min wage and without staff there is no business so discount them, you can add a few million for top end exec pay into the pot if you like.. I am going to stand by my belief that supermarkers will not simply absorb higher food prices without putting up costs to the consumer.
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
The bulk of the staff are close to min wage and without staff there is no business so discount them, you can add a few million for top end exec pay into the pot if you like.. I am going to stand by my belief that supermarkers will not simply absorb higher food prices without putting up costs to the consumer.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but tesco's profits are after all their costs which include staff costs, farmers profits dont include the salary taken by the farmer/partners in the business unless they run it as a company, if youre going to compare profits then they all need to include the same things
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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  • 50-75%

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  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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