Foundations of Farming

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
I've always thought that farming was one of the best occupations you can possibly have, where it does now fall down is the fact that nowadays our politicians seldom appreciate what we do & take every opportunity to criticise us for their own selfish political reasons which then can have a detrimental effect on public opinion towards us.
To me this is the saddest part of farming in the UK & from what I have seen is not the same in many other countries where farmers are far better appreciated for the work they do.
In all the time I have been farming the quality & ability of our politicians of all the parties has been in a ever downward spiral, we now either have toffs who feel entitled to rule or others who think it's a career path straight from school, neither have any idea whatever how businesses work or what they need.
 

merino

Member
Location
The North East
Have you visited the tribal 3rd world?

Have you seen the power wielded by imams?

Of course I'm not saying that there is a homogeneous block of "immigrants". But if 3mil Sunni Muslims arrive in the UK they will very quickly become a significant political force under PR.
My god, immigrants coming to our country, interacting with our system of governance, making compromises and forming coalitions.

It might be your idea of hell but I think it'd be great.
 

merino

Member
Location
The North East
You want further devolution? The regional governments have been the most expensive and ridiculous political decision in history. Legions of politicians and their baggage trains costing us all a mint and doing fudge all for you and me. Stupid idea.

No right to roam here, and people wouldn't vote for one. Dunno why it is even a thing.

Privat education should be taxed. End of story.

Should be very tough immigration laws, very tough tax policy, stiff drugs laws and serious prisons to keep people in.

You know what, I'll bite? Why?
What do you reckon you'll get that's worth the bother for going to the trouble of f**king with peoples lives?
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
We are 'haves' because, as the British empire, we pilaged vast wealth from those 'have nots'.
Many violent and lawless countries are that way because of British imperialism. It can be argued that radical islam is a push back against western imperialism.
Radical wahhabbi Islam exists as a global force because oil was discovered in the middle East. Without it, they'd still be tent dwelling desert nomads.

If I'm a "have" because of the British empire, then I'm very grateful for it, and for my successful ancestors. The might is right. All of human existence is a struggle for resources.

But the current western civilisations must be the first in history to sow the seeds of their own destruction out of a misplaced sense of guilt. Personally I believe it's because the current generation lacks a war or great struggle. So they've made this equitable woke nonsense their war.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
I wouldn’t worry about three million Muslims but the UKs looking to do a trade deal with India which will result in a lot of Indians coming to the UK this you should worry about. They’re generally very bright and hard working and looking to move ahead give them 20 years and they’ll not be complaining about how life has been so tough for them but employing an awful lot of the indigenous population.
Yes I'm deeply concerned about that. One reason I voted for Brexit was the prospect of Turkey joining the EU.

I'm deeply unhappy about the prospect of unlimited EU immigrants being replaced by unlimited Commonwealth immigrants. Strict immigration laws are necessary, with only those of desirable skills being allowed entry.

And there should be a criminality threshold, whereby if you commit a crime of sufficient seriousness its immediate deportation. No appeal, no duty if care. I don't give a f**k if you're going to be ethnically cleansed in your country of origin.
 
Radical wahhabbi Islam exists as a global force because oil was discovered in the middle East. Without it, they'd still be tent dwelling desert nomads.

If I'm a "have" because of the British empire, then I'm very grateful for it, and for my successful ancestors. The might is right. All of human existence is a struggle for resources.

But the current western civilisations must be the first in history to sow the seeds of their own destruction out of a misplaced sense of guilt. Personally I believe it's because the current generation lacks a war or great struggle. So they've made this equitable woke nonsense their war.

It will be interesting to see what happens geopolitically if suddenly oil isn't such a desirable material- if everyone's cars go electric, there won't be any middle eastern oil.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yes I'm deeply concerned about that. One reason I voted for Brexit was the prospect of Turkey joining the EU.

I'm deeply unhappy about the prospect of unlimited EU immigrants being replaced by unlimited Commonwealth immigrants. Strict immigration laws are necessary, with only those of desirable skills being allowed entry.

And there should be a criminality threshold, whereby if you commit a crime of sufficient seriousness its immediate deportation. No appeal, no duty if care. I don't give a f**k if you're going to be ethnically cleansed in your country of origin.
I agree if you let people in they should have a similar culture. People from within the EU generally do. Allowing people from other places means people with different cultures who are less likely to assimilate. I think the Government is keeping very quite about this in public whilst doing deals with countries for skilled/semi skilled labour. There was a deal done for Kenyan nurses and someone told me recently that some Kenyan butchers are being trained for UK. My son's girlfriend works for the General Medical Council as a language examiner assessing the ability of foreign doctors to make themselves understood in English. I think the problem is the Government say one thing but do another.
 
Last edited:

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
Why does PR make you a second class citizen? Quite the opposite at least your vote counts.
PR creates a political class like no other.
If you are high enough up the electoral list you are irremovable. As you are accountable to everyone you become accountable to no one.

At least under our system if the local electorate want to get rid of the MP for Uxbridge they can vote Boris out- which they could feasibly do at the next election. What was the North Shrops majority pre by-election? 20,000? But the voters said nah, do one, yer out!
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
PR creates a political class like no other.
If you are high enough up the electoral list you are irremovable. As you are accountable to everyone you become accountable to no one.

At least under our system if the local electorate want to get rid of the MP for Uxbridge they can vote Boris out- which they could feasibly do at the next election. What was the North Shrops majority pre by-election? 20,000? But the voters said nah, do one, yer out!
Under your system 60% of the electorate get the government they didn’t vote for, where’s the democracy in that?
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
How often does a party get over 50% of the vote in PR?
Under almost any system the majority of the electorate get a government that they didn’t vote for.
No they don’t, if 15% of the electorate vote for a party then that party gets 15% of the seats, almost 100% of those who vote get the government they voted for in the percentages that the electorate voted. The ones that miss out are the minor parties who didn’t make the threshold.
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
No they don’t, if 15% of the electorate vote for a party then that party gets 15% of the seats, almost 100% of those who vote get the government they voted for in the percentages that the electorate voted. The ones that miss out are the minor parties who didn’t make the threshold.
How's that working out for you in New Zealand?
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
PR is a fairer system in that everyone’s vote counts except for the fact that the country can be held to ransom by vested interests and parties whose voter base is far exceeded by the fact that they might hold a casting vote a bit like we saw with the Ulster Unionists. So you could have a stalemate that can only be broken by the Greens or UKIP or the EDL.
In our old constituency of Grantham every election the Conservatives would get 30,000 votes,Labour 20,000 and the Liberals 10,000.So for the next five years 30,000 opinions aren’t important. Everyone gets a vote it’s just if yours isn’t for the winning party in parliament it doesn’t count. It’s not really democracy but if you’re winning why change the system.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
PR is a fairer system in that everyone’s vote counts except for the fact that the country can be held to ransom by vested interests and parties whose voter base is far exceeded by the fact that they might hold a casting vote a bit like we saw with the Ulster Unionists. So you could have a stalemate that can only be broken by the Greens or UKIP or the EDL.
In our old constituency of Grantham every election the Conservatives would get 30,000 votes,Labour 20,000 and the Liberals 10,000.So for the next five years 30,000 opinions aren’t important. Everyone gets a vote it’s just if yours isn’t for the winning party in parliament it doesn’t count. It’s not really democracy but if you’re winning why change the system.
The stalemate leading to the Ulster Unionists having the balance of power was under the FPTP system, with PR it would likely have been UKIP.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.2%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.8%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top