French to use neonics in sugar beet seed.

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Another unlevel playing field in the EU......
Farcical. Sadly I doubt we will apply for it or get a derogation.

We would almost certainly get a derogation, if we were to apply for it. It won't matter for next year's drilling anyway, as we will be out proper by then, and the UK government will have the final say on it themselves.

I can understand the theory behind banning it in annual, flowering crops like OSR, as bees could potentially take in the chems from gathering nectar. In non-flowering plants such as beet and other bi-annual roots there is absolutely no reason for them to have been banned.
The beekeepers are however lamenting the loss of the early season nectar afforded by OSR, and calling for neonics to be allowed in that crop again.

The world's gone mad.
 
We would almost certainly get a derogation, if we were to apply for it. It won't matter for next year's drilling anyway, as we will be out proper by then, and the UK government will have the final say on it themselves.

I can understand the theory behind banning it in annual, flowering crops like OSR, as bees could potentially take in the chems from gathering nectar. In non-flowering plants such as beet and other bi-annual roots there is absolutely no reason for them to have been banned.
The beekeepers are however lamenting the loss of the early season nectar afforded by OSR, and calling for neonics to be allowed in that crop again.

The world's gone mad.
it is easy to collect the pollen bees are bring in and test it
i have never seen the results of a study that has annalised the pollen from rape crops and shown neo nics

the problem with sugar is that it is associated with the obesity epidemic
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
it is easy to collect the pollen bees are bring in and test it
i have never seen the results of a study that has annalised the pollen from rape crops and shown neo nics

Agreed, and I don't there has been a link proven between OSR crops and bee problems, but there is at least a semi-plausible theory about how it 'could' affect insects. Even that doesn't exist in non-flowering crops.
 

two-cylinder

Member
Location
Cambridge
I don’t understand. If we were in the EU we wouldn’t have them back either
The government won't apply for a derogation because they are too proud of their Brexit project.
If we were still full members, and others were applying they could apply and find justification for doing so.
The decision is political.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
i might be wrong but IIRC the problem with neo nics is not in plant but based on it seeping up outta ground.....some talk about how drilling neo nic seed with pneumatic drills was worst :scratchhead:
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
The government won't apply for a derogation because they are too proud of their Brexit project.
If we were still full members, and others were applying they could apply and find justification for doing so.
The decision is political.
Disagree. We don’t need a derogation anyway. Whatever happened or didn’t happen re Brexit we wouldn’t have asked IMO. And I blame gove just as much as theEU.
 
I do wonder about at times. But TFF is a broad church and the anonymity means I have no idea whether I am sat next to a pauper, a Lord or President Putin, but will say you provide entertainment with your posts.

Split the vote and fetch and grow Polish beet seed - you for real, like as my daughter would say, eyebrow cocked.
Many years ago it was legal to sow Cruiser treated OSR but it was not legal to dress home saved OSR with Cruiser in the UK. No prizes for guessing who took 2 600kg varieties of home saved OSR to Germany in a Sprinter van and had them dressed with Cruiser. Where there is a will there is a way. To quote the old cliche think outside the box!
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Many years ago it was legal to sow Cruiser treated OSR but it was not legal to dress home saved OSR with Cruiser in the UK. No prizes for guessing who took 2 600kg varieties of home saved OSR to Germany in a Sprinter van and had them dressed with Cruiser. Where there is a will there is a way. To quote the old cliche think outside the box!
You supply I will buy
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Many years ago it was legal to sow Cruiser treated OSR but it was not legal to dress home saved OSR with Cruiser in the UK. No prizes for guessing who took 2 600kg varieties of home saved OSR to Germany in a Sprinter van and had them dressed with Cruiser. Where there is a will there is a way. To quote the old cliche think outside the box!

Well done. But at the moment and until an authorization is granted then using neonic seed dressing would be illegal in the UK. So your example is incorrect. In your previous post there was an implicit suggestion to use illegally treated seed.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
When the Single Market first came in my cousin’s husband took a tranny van on the ferry to Europe, filled it with cheap agrochemicals and brought them back over. Was soon up in front of the magistrate.
Let nobody be under any illusion that the “level playing field” never did and never will exist.
The fact our present leaders won’t contemplate neonics has already been discussed above but I’d add that our present leaders are self serving political opportunists who jumped on an unstoppable bandwagon that had been built and 99% completed by the hard work of others. Our present leadership never really did “ get it “ and looks like they never will, but continue pandering to middle class greeny suburbia.
What we need are real statesmen who put the commercial viability of the country first and foremost with a good helping of pragmatism.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I have 2 units of Haydn from this springs drilling now surplus to requirements. One still sealed, one opened but full, dry cool stored. Enrich, tachigaren, force, vibrance.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
It's only a matter of time before neonics fall on their faces anyway.
Neonic resistance in Canadian flea beetle. Why don’t we ever learn that all this gear is just a momentary stop gap. Resistance is basically inevitable.
Think of just how much neonic was being used a few years ago on osr, cereals and beet. No wonder stuff gets banned.
anyone claiming that any form of insecticide is harmless and has no side effects is brainwashed.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Neonic resistance in Canadian flea beetle. Why don’t we ever learn that all this gear is just a momentary stop gap. Resistance is basically inevitable.
Think of just how much neonic was being used a few years ago on osr, cereals and beet. No wonder stuff gets banned.
anyone claiming that any form of insecticide is harmless and has no side effects is brainwashed.
You might say that but to support human populations at high levels we have needed insecticides for a century now. Like it or not, without insecticides, harvests will become of random reliability and quality to such an extent that it will cause real hardship that won’t be tolerated by the general population long term. We haven’t really seen the effects of crop failure yet in the shops but without innovation on pest control I think we are heading that way.
Leaving it to beneficials never worked when there were plenty of them and we had a much lower population to feed. I can’t honestly see it working now and the demand for food doesn’t just go away.
 

robbie

Member
BASIS
Neonic resistance in Canadian flea beetle. Why don’t we ever learn that all this gear is just a momentary stop gap. Resistance is basically inevitable.
Think of just how much neonic was being used a few years ago on osr, cereals and beet. No wonder stuff gets banned.
anyone claiming that any form of insecticide is harmless and has no side effects is brainwashed.
That's spoken by someone who doesnt grow beet.

I dont think anyone is saying theyre completely safe but it's about a calculated decision.

Cereals can be grown quite happily without insecticides, osr also to a certain extent or atleast theres other measures that can be adopted to help minimise an insect problem - whether any of them actually work is a debate for another day but there is things that can be done, but when it comes to beet there is no cultural option or alternative.

Yields are suffering and making an already struggling industry struggle even more, so we need an effective insecticide. It's not a long term answer but we dont need a long term answer we just need something effective for a few years to bridge the gap and hopefully allow a industry to survive until the breeders can get varieties out there that are resistant to virus yellows et al.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Meanwhile I’m back to a rotation of winter wheat, spring barley, spring beans and spring oats, though the winter wheat window also seems to nearly closed on me.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Neonic resistance in Canadian flea beetle. Why don’t we ever learn that all this gear is just a momentary stop gap. Resistance is basically inevitable.
Think of just how much neonic was being used a few years ago on osr, cereals and beet. No wonder stuff gets banned.
anyone claiming that any form of insecticide is harmless and has no side effects is brainwashed.
And you will get crop loss in your crops eventually. Pests will build up. Why do you think our organic forefathers adopted chemicals so readily in the first place? You are naïve not us.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
And as we see, taking the moral high ground on pesticides in the UK will only mean we suck in imports from places where they continue to use them, out of sight, out of mind, less open to scrutiny.
Even that will only work until “they” have a bad year , when we could be left with serious shortages.
With global warming creating possible opportunities for insect populations I would have thought there was never a greater need for innovation in insecticide development.
Used carefully and sympathetically insectides could be said to be part of the human eco system.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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