French to use neonics in sugar beet seed.

[Mixedupfarmer]

Good. Share the pain.

Not shared the profits made in the good years much in the past have they?, Still have similar volumes of co products to sell at high prices such as beet pulp.

 

[shakerator]

Fair points from everyone, just offering a different view.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the ban also has something to do with lowering sugar intake of the population.

in me it suggests they werent defended all that vigorously as the patents were coming to an end anyway !

 

[Rookie]

Wissington processed 15,000 tonnes of beet yesterday below 15% sugar. Unheard of at this time of year.

What would a 29t lorry load be adjusting out at as the average dirt was also rubbish at 9.5% ,( along with a poor average sugar of 14.75%). ?
Low 20's ? Not sure how it is calculated.

 

[Farmer T]

Neonic resistance in Canadian flea beetle. Why don’t we ever learn that all this gear is just a momentary stop gap. Resistance is basically inevitable.
Think of just how much neonic was being used a few years ago on osr, cereals and beet. No wonder stuff gets banned.
anyone claiming that any form of insecticide is harmless and has no side effects is brainwashed.

Adam for someone as well read and intelligent as you please don’t fall into the sweeping generalisation category type farmer.

Canada has got neonic resistance. Do you know why? They grow EVERY crop with neonics on them. Unbelievable especially given the cold winters. This allows them often to grow back to back OSR GM Neonic crops. This would explain why they’ve got a very serious club root problem spreading like wild fire.

The beet industry is under no illusion that neonics aren’t for ever. Within years the industry will have resistance bred into the seed which will help this issue. However in the short run there is nothing else we can do to protect our crops after the ban came in giving the industry no time to respond.

I freely admit farmers often “cry wolf” over issues but this time the industry was clear, using science and one of the cleverest minds in agriculture in Dr Mark Stevens, that this would have a huge effect and we have no alternative. Don’t even get me started why we can spray a neonic spray into the crop but aren’t allowed it as a seed coating.

So why should beet be allowed it. Well it’s a one in four rotation max, precision drilled and a it’s a non flowering crop among other reasons.

If the NFU as a whole are missing any tricks it would be ask for a review on the risk-hazard model when it comes to accessing sprays. Neonics are a hazard as they are an insecticide, but when professionally used they are at low or no risk.

 

[ajd132]

in me it suggests they werent defended all that vigorously as the patents were coming to an end anyway !

I didn’t realise that was the case. What a surprise. No wonder there wasn’t any defence of CTL either, oh here’s can of revysol that cost a million times more. We are mugs.

 

[shakerator]

I didn’t realise that was the case. What a surprise. No wonder there wasn’t any defence of CTL either, oh here’s can of revysol that cost a million times more. We are mugs.

Writing been on the wall a long time with post patent chemistry
“Hang on now we have a seed with herbicide resistant tech, we now have good “funded” evidence this active is “safe” “ !!

 

[Hindsight]

I didn’t realise that was the case. What a surprise. No wonder there wasn’t any defence of CTL either, oh here’s can of revysol that cost a million times more. We are mugs.

don't suppose there is a law preventing a new manufacturer into the market that was wholly owned by interested farmers if that were the case (I do not know if the patent was coming to an end). That farmer owned company would then face the commercial risks of any manufacturer. But its board cold say pursue a particular active when the board of BASF have more vest interest in promoting the new.

Farmers seem to want it both ways. Cheap old chemistry with no risk of supporting the active through the regulatory process and manufacturing. Cake and eat it?

 

[Flat 10]

don't suppose there is a law preventing a new manufacturer into the market that was wholly owned by interested farmers if that were the case (I do not know if the patent was coming to an end). That farmer owned company would then face the commercial risks of any manufacturer. But its board cold say pursue a particular active when the board of BASF have more vest interest in promoting the new.

Farmers seem to want it both ways. Cheap old chemistry with no risk of supporting the active through the regulatory process and manufacturing. Cake and eat it?

I think there’s an argument that hgca or bbro should do this through the levies

 

[two-cylinder]

It is my belief the whole national acreage beet didn't need to be treated to achieve control.
That's because we've never used it on our farm!
Our agronomists have said we were managing off everyone else keeping numbers down?
That being the case- I would like to have seen a study done on establishing the minimum national acreage required to keep things under control.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

It is my belief the whole national acreage beet didn't need to be treated to achieve control.
That's because we've never used it on our farm!
Our agronomists have said we were managing off everyone else keeping numbers down?
That being the case- I would like to have seen a study done on establishing the minimum national acreage required to keep things under control.

we grew non neonic treated fodder beet a few years ago, but treated sugar beet and the virus levels in the fodder beet were very high.

 

[Hindsight]

It is my belief the whole national acreage beet didn't need to be treated to achieve control.
That's because we've never used it on our farm!
Our agronomists have said we were managing off everyone else keeping numbers down?
That being the case- I would like to have seen a study done on establishing the minimum national acreage required to keep things under control.

Would be too complex relationships to give any kind of accurate percentage area.

Several variable factors, which in main would be level of background virus, winter temperatures to affect overwinter viability, overwinter brassica and other local hosts, aphid numbers and when they appeared in the crop annually - as this year, growth stages of crop.

Needless to say you have had a good run in previous years with no treatment, and I know of a couple of small growers my way did similar but I suggest you do not project that 'good fortune' onto being able to forecast an area of neonic to ensure low levels every year.

In recent years fodder beet growers in West Midlands had quite severe infections. So much so Mark Stephens, BBRO entomologist was warning of the potential for virus based on observations of those fodder beet crops.

Would likely be higher percentage that might expect. Put a call into Mark at BBRO to ask your question. he is very approachable and will provide an answer.

 

[Honest john]

Brexit may bring about a different viewpoint. It cannot be blamed as usual on the EU for better or worse. Gang up on you local MP's and tell them you will run against them and split the vote. Gravy train killer which will get attention.
Secondly its not exactly a large product so get in a van and go and bring back French/Polish seed. I know the contracts but buy it and just return it later as unused, bet it disappears with nobody noticing. Computers count by 1's and zeros so are just fast idiots. You just need to outflank the system.

This has come 2nd hand, but one of my neighbours has his beet all in, & yield is said to be 25% of contract.

I did like your post but feel I should x it but 10.

 

[Flat 10]

This has come 2nd hand, but one of my neighbours has his beet all in, & yield is said to be 25% of contract.

I did like your post but feel I should x it but 10.

No!!! ??? That’s terrible. Really glad I sent back the contract offer . Looking at mine was expecting 20% down but I guess combined with Low sugar will be 30 odd percent.

 

[Daniel]

Adam for someone as well read and intelligent as you please don’t fall into the sweeping generalisation category type farmer.

Canada has got neonic resistance. Do you know why? They grow EVERY crop with neonics on them. Unbelievable especially given the cold winters. This allows them often to grow back to back OSR GM Neonic crops. This would explain why they’ve got a very serious club root problem spreading like wild fire.

The beet industry is under no illusion that neonics aren’t for ever. Within years the industry will have resistance bred into the seed which will help this issue. However in the short run there is nothing else we can do to protect our crops after the ban came in giving the industry no time to respond.

I freely admit farmers often “cry wolf” over issues but this time the industry was clear, using science and one of the cleverest minds in agriculture in Dr Mark Stevens, that this would have a huge effect and we have no alternative. Don’t even get me started why we can spray a neonic spray into the crop but aren’t allowed it as a seed coating.

So why should beet be allowed it. Well it’s a one in four rotation max, precision drilled and a it’s a non flowering crop among other reasons.

If the NFU as a whole are missing any tricks it would be ask for a review on the risk-hazard model when it comes to accessing sprays. Neonics are a hazard as they are an insecticide, but when professionally used they are at low or no risk.

Well written post and quite right, thanks.

 

[An Gof]

Adam for someone as well read and intelligent as you please don’t fall into the sweeping generalisation category type farmer.

Canada has got neonic resistance. Do you know why? They grow EVERY crop with neonics on them. Unbelievable especially given the cold winters. This allows them often to grow back to back OSR GM Neonic crops. This would explain why they’ve got a very serious club root problem spreading like wild fire.

The beet industry is under no illusion that neonics aren’t for ever. Within years the industry will have resistance bred into the seed which will help this issue. However in the short run there is nothing else we can do to protect our crops after the ban came in giving the industry no time to respond.

I freely admit farmers often “cry wolf” over issues but this time the industry was clear, using science and one of the cleverest minds in agriculture in Dr Mark Stevens, that this would have a huge effect and we have no alternative. Don’t even get me started why we can spray a neonic spray into the crop but aren’t allowed it as a seed coating.

So why should beet be allowed it. Well it’s a one in four rotation max, precision drilled and a it’s a non flowering crop among other reasons.

If the NFU as a whole are missing any tricks it would be ask for a review on the risk-hazard model when it comes to accessing sprays. Neonics are a hazard as they are an insecticide, but when professionally used they are at low or no risk.

On the button there @Farmer T .... mind you wouldn’t expect any less from you on this subject

 

[Breakthru]

Well done. But at the moment and until an authorization is granted then using neonic seed dressing would be illegal in the UK. So your example is incorrect. In your previous post there was an implicit suggestion to use illegally treated seed.

Absolutely