Front suspension 4cyl Deutz

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The front suspension on 4cyl 61x0.4s are giving issues, the best Deutz are willing to do is convert it to the 6cyl version, which they claim will cause damage to the front mudguards.
Has anyone done this and was it a success?
Or has anyone come up with a proper solution for this bad design flaw?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Mechanical issue or electronic?

There was a big fuss a few years ago when the software for the suspension wasn't correctly calibrated / programmed correctly and the entire front axle sheared off a new 7 series during an emergency stop test

 

[DrDunc]

What are the "issues"?

I've modified my 6150.4 front suspension so that it doesn't switch off when 4wd is engaged. You need the dealer computer to alter the defaults.

It still locks up when braking though, because there's no anti dive geometry in the suspension design (and they cocked up software on a test, snapped the axle off, then allowed the video to end up on YouTube!)

What is different about the six cylinder suspension? I thought it was just a higher nominal ride position that allows more bump travel because the longer prop on a six cylinder gives less of an angle change on the prop uj.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

It still locks up when braking though, because there's no anti dive geometry in the suspension design

Should've offered your skills to Lauingen as ex chassis engineer, in return for say a free tractor

 

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Mechanical issue or electronic?

There was a big fuss a few years ago when the software for the suspension wasn't correctly calibrated / programmed correctly and the entire front axle sheared off a new 7 series during an emergency stop test

A bit of both, mechanically the seals are not up to the job and go if under load, I wanted to put on a front loader but I have already had one set of seals go just with a front weight.
Also electronic, @DrDunc explains it well above, but mine also winds itself up or down when in 4wd and bangs out when trying to correct itself, probably what does in the seals.

What are the "issues"?

I've modified my 6150.4 front suspension so that it doesn't switch off when 4wd is engaged. You need the dealer computer to alter the defaults.

It still locks up when braking though, because there's no anti dive geometry in the suspension design (and they cocked up software on a test, snapped the axle off, then allowed the video to end up on YouTube!)

What is different about the six cylinder suspension? I thought it was just a higher nominal ride position that allows more bump travel because the longer prop on a six cylinder gives less of an angle change on the prop uj.

The main difference with the 6cyl suspension, or so I have been told, is when turned off the 6cyl allows the axle rest on the stops and so acts like a tractor without suspension, while the 4cyl always tries to lock itself in the middle of the travel range and the suspension is always under pressure. If that makes sense.
If I could turn off the suspension while using the loader and it wouldn't be putting its components under pressure, I could live without F.S. while doing loader work. At the moment I would not trust the suspension to be up to loader work and turning it off doesn't protect its components.
It is a shame, the 6160.4 is a great tractor and Deutz have improved a lot of things over the M series, the only thing that disimproved is the suspension.

 

[milton-95]

Can hear ours pumping if there's something heavy on the loader, it's is a bit worrying but hasn't given bother yet with 2000 hours, it would be really nice if it would turn off for like our M series for doing loader or front linkage work.

Can hear the pumping stop if I press the brake pedal enough to work the switch but obviously not practical,

Be interested to know if there was a way round it aswell .

Edit. Switching the switch off in the cab doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't lock up or go down, does anyone else's do this ?

 

[DrDunc]

When I press the suspension switch on my 6150.4 it lowers itself down onto the stops.

That's the only way to get the angle that's needed to get the (Quicke) loader off. It's on and off very frequently.

Mine has 2000 hours of mainly loader work. Carries half a dozen 700kg silage bales every day in winter, two at a time. Carts in and stacks them, always with one on the rollers from the field. I've an 8.5 foot high volume bucket that holds 1.5 tonne of hen muck or dung, and it'll load over a thousand tonnes per year...

Long story short, the loader is worked hard, and the suspension isn't ever switched off. Seals haven't been a problem (yet?!?).

 

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When I press the suspension switch on my 6150.4 it lowers itself down onto the stops.

That's the only way to get the angle that's needed to get the (Quicke) loader off. It's on and off very frequently.

Mine has 2000 hours of mainly loader work. Carries half a dozen 700kg silage bales every day in winter, two at a time. Carts in and stacks them, always with one on the rollers from the field. I've an 8.5 foot high volume bucket that holds 1.5 tonne of hen muck or dung, and it'll load over a thousand tonnes per year...

Long story short, the loader is worked hard, and the suspension isn't ever switched off. Seals haven't been a problem (yet?!?).

Maybe it's only the 6160.4?
When the suspension is turned off it tries to lock itself in the middle of the travel range, it also turns itself back on randomly This is probably why it damages itself.

 

[njneer]

Suspension will turn itself back on above a certain speed .
The suspension on the 4 cylinder can be set to
Lower to the stops but you need to adjust the mudguards slightly to stop them
Fouling the battery tray and fuel tank .
Not a big job .
The software is different to the six cylinder for this reason as the 4 cylinder is shorter .

 

[milton-95]

Maybe it's only the 6160.4?
When the suspension is turned off it tries to lock itself in the middle of the travel range, it also turns itself back on randomly This is probably why it damages itself.

Our 6160.4 doesn't even try to lock it's self out, just carries on as normal

I'm wondering if someone's set mine so it doesn't lock up when 4 wheel drive is used and has made a mistake somewhere ?

 

[njneer]

It should lower below the normal position when turned off just not all the way to the stops.

 

[milton-95]

It should lower below the normal position when turned off just not all the way to the stops.

Okay just tried the suspension just now, if I switch it on and work the loader the suspension bounces, if I switch it off and work the loader the suspensions hard, but doesn't drop.

 

[ih1455xl]

Our 6160.4 ttv ate 3 front suspension blocks with a loader and ripped the front mudguards off as well sent tractor back as it was a crock of shite ours used to dance up and down itself got a video some where if I can work out how to get it off facebook

 

[njneer]

Our 6160.4 ttv ate 3 front suspension blocks with a loader and ripped the front mudguards off as well sent tractor back as it was a crock of shite ours used to dance up and down itself got a video some where if I can work out how to get it off facebook

That's poor fitting three blocks when it is only an o ring on a valve which is available as a spare part.

 

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That's poor fitting three blocks when it is only an o ring on a valve which is available as a spare part.

Deutz are just ignoring this issue and telling the mechanics to fit a new block to get the farmers off their backs knowing full well that it has nothing to do with it.

 

[njneer]

Absolutely not ,I have experienced this issue first hand and there has never been any instruction to "just fit a valve" no way Deutz or any manufacturer for that matter will
Sanction the throwing of £1000 complete valve block at a failed o ring on a solenoid valve
I have worked on these extensively over the years
It is not a major fault some tractors experience it mostly those with front linkage or loader but not all
and it is easily addressed with a configuration adjustment allowing the suspension to lower fully.

 

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Absolutely not ,I have experienced this issue first hand and there has never been any instruction to "just fit a valve" no way Deutz or any manufacturer for that matter will
Sanction the throwing of £1000 complete valve block at a failed o ring on a solenoid valve
I have worked on these extensively over the years
It is not a major fault some tractors experience it mostly those with front linkage or loader but not all
and it is easily addressed with a configuration adjustment allowing the suspension to lower fully.

So their best solution is to turn off the suspension?
I have been told this may cause the mudguards to catch on the battery cover and exhaust, have you done it on a 6160.4 with large tyres?

 

[ih1455xl]

That's poor fitting three blocks when it is only an o ring on a valve which is available as a spare part.

This was done by deutz at barby the tractor spent more time at barby in bits than it did on farm

 

[njneer]

So their best solution is to turn off the suspension?
I have been told this may cause the mudguards to catch on the battery cover and exhaust, have you done it on a 6160.4 with large tyres?

So first you state they are completely ignoring the issue then the reccomended solution does not meet your approval either??.
This is why I left the industry.
Suspension is meant to be off on loader work and is locked when 4 wheel drive is on any way same way you don't work a loader with the soft ride on .
Mudguards can catch on the battery box as you say but can be adjusted not to . Not a big job in the grand scheme of things.
Bigger wheels does make it a bit harder granted but can be done.

The front axle suspension previously used has , like everything eventually does, reached its limitations now and natural evolution of design .has driven it to be completely changed on the new models .
New models suspension is active in four wheel drive for higher speed cultivation work ( a valid criticism of the previous model) and can be locked as it should be for draft work.

 

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This was done by deutz at barby the tractor spent more time at barby in bits than it did on farm

I had one fitted as well and I doubt there was much wrong with the original one.
It seems that the system is just about up to the weight of the tractor itself and if weights, implements or a loader is used it is not up to it.