Could you expand on your permaculture, what does that involve ? We have planted some cider varieties on 40 ft spacing (only 50 trees) on a tall rootstock, to enable cattle grazing underneath, but three years on I feel they need a little help.Hi Kidds, thanks for your reply. I plan on only grafting only the best varieties from now on in, I'm grafting the from the trees that have stayed desease free, in the spring. We have had a crop this year and we juiced them all pretty much. We suffered frost damage too, the orchard is quite well protected, so only about 20% effected. I have had a few local farm shops asking for eaters, I no doubt will sell what I can that way but I will be keeping everything Organic, I've spend a lot of time creating a permiculture over the years.