FT get leaked speech...

[Cowcorn]

It’s not always just to remain viable although I’m sure in many cases nowadays that’s is correct. I could easily cut back to our 450 acres And it be viable, but I would probably end up expanding again if it made financial sense!. the opportunities have been there to expand and make more money so they have been taken.
human beings are all different with different motivations. Some are happy with their lot and are content with doing the same thing forever and doing it well. Some want take over the world like maniacs and drive 80 miles in a combine and measure success by acres and horsepower. Some are ambitious but sensible in how they go about it. Some cannot be arsed with anything and just take the sub.
the generalisations are again getting abit silly. Not everyone on 200 acres is farming well and making a good living. Not everyone farming over 1000 acres is simply doing it to remain ‘viable’. Size is an irrelevance and an obsession to some. There is good and bad,viable/unviable of every size and type of farm in the U.K.
it really is down the person steering the ship.

Im not having a go at you Adam , fair dues to you and your father . The current system is totally skewed in c favour of "sofa " farming and of course the work has to be done by Somebody . Look on other threads their is no shortage of young people trying to get a start with council farms or various grazing yearly liciences .
A heathy vibrant rural community needs young blood and 10 400 acre farmers are surely better than one 4000 acre contractor who probably would be better of with the half of it . Its not all about money its also about the type of society and rural economy that will benefit the most people rather than the few .
@digger64 there is only one word for what you describe fukking greed . The uk has now left the eu and folks can no longer blame brussels but unfortunately i think the will find out that as always the British v establishment has never had the interests of the small man at heart . Never forget that Ray Mc Sharry wanted to cap Arable aid at 350 acres and cap other livestock schemes at sensible levels you can thank the NFU the CLA and the Tory party for the unlimited acreage regime that was agreed as a compromise under threat of a British veto . The payment on the 350 acres would have been higher under the first reform proposal but the large estates preffered less per acre and get it on every acre Now its back to the start and hopefully decency and fairness will prevail but i doubt it .

 

[GeorgeK]

If there is any money to be made from schemes, costs will have to be kept to a minimum. Flowers can put in with 60hp, an old set of harrows and a slug pelleter. Don't think they'll pay for 300hp on a trio followed by combi drill, or contribute to the cost of these items. We are told unproductive corners is where to put schemes because these areas are likely loss making, but you end up traipsing around all over the farm for a few measly acres and spend more time opening and closing gates than working. You have to block crop the current schemes and do a decent acreage to make it worthwhile.
If I put everything down to bird/pollen mixes, just kept a small, simple tractor and some equipment that resides in the nettles the current environment schemes would in theory be lucrative. Unfortunately it's too risky to be totally reliant on our government to hand over the money. At best it's always late, at worst some bureaucratic non compliance could be backdated and cost an absolute fortune

 

[ollie989898]

We talk often about young entrants and the barriers to entry but are that many of them in reality? Enough to even replace the farmers who leave the industry for whatever reason?

I mean farming 400 acres on your tod isn't exactly everyone's cup of tea, is it? I know people who farmed 800 acres all arable by themselves. It's a bit lonely.

 

[teslacoils]

We talk often about young entrants and the barriers to entry but are that many of them in reality? Enough to even replace the farmers who leave the industry for whatever reason?

I mean farming 400 acres on your tod isn't exactly everyone's cup of tea, is it? I know people who farmed 800 acres all arable by themselves. It's a bit lonely.

Farming 400ac for sod all money isn't many people's cup of tea.

 

[GeorgeK]

We talk often about young entrants and the barriers to entry but are that many of them in reality? Enough to even replace the farmers who leave the industry for whatever reason?

I mean farming 400 acres on your tod isn't exactly everyone's cup of tea, is it? I know people who farmed 800 acres all arable by themselves. It's a bit lonely.

Even the lucky ones who inherit a farm still spend the best years of their lives being shouted at, belittled and generally told they're no good before finally becoming their own boss for a few sweet years until their own sprogs start getting big ideas and they themselves become the old boy knocking over gateposts and purposefully seeking out anything new or shiny and reversing into it

 

[jendan]

Even the lucky ones who inherit a farm still spend the best years of their lives being shouted at, belittled and generally told they're no good before finally becoming their own boss for a few sweet years until their own sprogs start getting big ideas and they themselves become the old boy knocking over gateposts and purposefully seeking out anything new or shiny and reversing into it

And that assumes the "lucky" one is an only child. Usually there is another brother (or sister) that wants to farm as well.Farms to let are thin on the ground,so the existing home farm is used as security to buy another one,and farmed in partnership with parents and sibling for the duration of the loan.

 

[teslacoils]

There's only so much value you can put on "lifestyle" while your friends start looking at early retirement at 55 on state- funded pensions. Like it or not, farming has to pay otherwise why bother doing it? And I mean properly pay for the value of the capital and the hours put in. That's why I'm only dabbling now before I find my knees are stuffed and the best years of my life have gone by. New entrants? Got to be completely loopy.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

About 20 years after we all start eating that slop there will be a huge increase in birth defects, obesity, and other illnesses, those companies will eventually become the new Monsanto.

Maybe, but I don't think that is going to stop the process.

 

[B'o'B]

Maybe, but I don't think that is going to stop the process.

Real food will I think still be reasonable chunk of the market, many times the size of the current organic market. The international food companies may want everyone to buy into it wholesale, but my gut feeling is if people can afford real food then it will be the food of choice.

 

[robs1]

Cant see it as the "rent" and the" fixed " costs will actually have to be paid by the growing crop rather than an annual cash injection
which means the risk factor will come into play much more in the decision making will be less "gungho "as a cosequence .

I mean that instead of one company claiming all the BPS it will be spread to make use of the "free pay" part
[/QUOTE]
Dont you have to list any farming business you have links too ,?

 

[robs1]

They are worth around the £100 mark. But if tarrifs are applied, that's to come off the value to remain competitive. Is my understanding of it. So if the tarrif is £50 then yes, the lamb would only be worth£50. I'm sure I will be corrected as I'm not certain of the facts

The tariff is added to the value so if its 40% and in the eu its worth £100 to be competitive with other lamb it would be worth just over £70 here before the tariff

 

[digger64]

circle. Lnot having a go at you Adam , fair dues to you and your father . The current system is totally skewed in c favour of "sofa " farming and of course the work has to be done by Somebody . Look on other threads their is no shortage of young people trying to get a start with council farms or various grazing yearly liciences .
A heathy vibrant rural community needs young blood and 10 400 acre farmers are surely better than one 4000 acre contractor who probably would be better of with the half of it . Its not all about money its also about the type of society and rural economy that will benefit the most people rather than the few .
@digger64 there is only one word for what you describe fukking greed . The uk has now left the eu and folks can no longer blame brussels but unfortunately i think the will find out that as always the British v establishment has never had the interests of the small man at heart . Never forget that Ray Mc Sharry wanted to cap Arable aid at 350 acres and cap other livestock schemes at sensible levels you can thank the NFU the CLA and the Tory party for the unlimited acreage regime that was agreed as a compromise under threat of a British veto . The payment on the 350 acres would have been higher under the first reform proposal but the large estates preffered less per acre and get it on every acre Now its back to the start and hopefully decency and fairness will prevail but i doubt it .

I'm not sure if it is greed , more of a vicious circle in order to sustain the "gentleman farmer " lifestyle of the past and avoid hands on work day to day , in order to sustain the owner - manager - foreman- workers system at today's labour rates means big machines which need big areas to dilute admin /finance /capital costs per acre .
They seem to have a very high chief to Indian ratio .
Also as it becomes monopolised in the area people in control of the land be it agents or owners don't look for alternatives when they wish to retire or whatever , it sort of becomes the accepted new normal.

 

[ajd132]

I'm not sure if it is greed , more of a vicious circle in order to sustain the "gentleman farmer " lifestyle of the past and avoid hands on work day to day , in order to sustain the owner - manager - foreman- workers system at today's labour rates means big machines which need big areas to dilute admin /finance /capital costs per acre .
They seem to have a very high chief to Indian ratio .
Also as it becomes monopolised in the area people in control of the land be it agents or owners don't look for alternatives when they wish to retire or whatever , it sort of becomes the accepted new normal.

FYI on the 1200ha we farm me and dad do all the drilling, spraying and combine driving. Aswell as the agronomy and everything else involved Nothing gentlemanly here we just have decent kit and no till system to allow us to do that with some part time help in busy periods. We employ no one. It’s a lean set up that gets results as is proved by when the land agents who we deal with benchmarkIng our results against hundreds of others. We also work considerably less hours than we used to because of the system.
dad started with 80 acres 35 years ago, we make good real profit consistently (whilst including realistic figures for our own time).
Don’t tar everyone with the same brush, sometimes ambition And success is more than Just a vanity project. My neighbour who is banana bar on here is a similar situation.

 

[digger64]

FYI on the 1200ha we farm me and dad do all the drilling, spraying and combine driving. Aswell as the agronomy and everything else involved Nothing gentlemanly here we just have decent kit and no till system to allow us to do that with some part time help in busy periods. We employ no one. It’s a lean set up that gets results as is proved by when the land agents who we deal with benchmarkIng our results against hundreds of others. We also work considerably less hours than we used to because of the system.
dad started with 80 acres 35 years ago, we make good real profit consistently (whilst including realistic figures for our own time).
Don’t tar everyone with the same brush, sometimes ambition And success is more than Just a vanity project. My neighbour who is banana bar on here is a similar situation.

I' m not your type /style of farming is nothing like how it's done around here at all .

 

[ajd132]

I' m not your type /style of farming is nothing like how it's done around here at all .

Sorry I probably took that too personally as it was just after a post aimed at me, did not mean to get snappy.
i do actually agree with you though, regularly read in the press about farms similar size To us with dad, son, manager, 2/3 men and wonder what the hell they do all year. We only work part time to be honest!

 

[serf]

We only work part time to be honest

Dont you do maintenance then , ditching , drainage , ect , must have miles of that sort of work every year on that area when not on with crop work ?

 

[steveR]

If there is any money to be made from schemes, costs will have to be kept to a minimum. Flowers can put in with 60hp, an old set of harrows and a slug pelleter. Don't think they'll pay for 300hp on a trio followed by combi drill, or contribute to the cost of these items. We are told unproductive corners is where to put schemes because these areas are likely loss making, but you end up traipsing around all over the farm for a few measly acres and spend more time opening and closing gates than working. You have to block crop the current schemes and do a decent acreage to make it worthwhile.
If I put everything down to bird/pollen mixes, just kept a small, simple tractor and some equipment that resides in the nettles the current environment schemes would in theory be lucrative. Unfortunately it's too risky to be totally reliant on our government to hand over the money. At best it's always late, at worst some bureaucratic non compliance could be backdated and cost an absolute fortune

 

[ajd132]

Dont you do maintenance then , ditching , drainage , ect , must have miles of that sort of work every year on that area when not on with crop work ?

Yep, our part timer has her own tractor and hedgecutter so she does that And works for our contract farms doing hedging (which is not part of the agreements). Ditches are generally up to date but usually hire a digger or a have a contractor do bits. Mole draining in the spring through spring crops and we have put in many thousands m of new headland drains which a contractor friend does as we don’t have a trencher (although looked into it recently but not cost effective to do it ourselves). All storage is CS. Overall it’s a cheaper way of doing it compared to employing 2/3 people for the whole year, every year.
time spend not physically working is spent at agronomy training and business strategy courses/meetings.

 

[kiwi pom]

Im not having a go at you Adam , fair dues to you and your father . The current system is totally skewed in c favour of "sofa " farming and of course the work has to be done by Somebody . Look on other threads their is no shortage of young people trying to get a start with council farms or various grazing yearly liciences .
A heathy vibrant rural community needs young blood and 10 400 acre farmers are surely better than one 4000 acre contractor who probably would be better of with the half of it . Its not all about money its also about the type of society and rural economy that will benefit the most people rather than the few .
@digger64 there is only one word for what you describe fukking greed . The uk has now left the eu and folks can no longer blame brussels but unfortunately i think the will find out that as always the British v establishment has never had the interests of the small man at heart . Never forget that Ray Mc Sharry wanted to cap Arable aid at 350 acres and cap other livestock schemes at sensible levels you can thank the NFU the CLA and the Tory party for the unlimited acreage regime that was agreed as a compromise under threat of a British veto . The payment on the 350 acres would have been higher under the first reform proposal but the large estates preffered less per acre and get it on every acre Now its back to the start and hopefully decency and fairness will prevail but i doubt it .

The problem is the smaller farmers that don't want to run a busy mixed farm, don't sell up and give someone else a chance either. Even if they couldn't out source the work to a contract farmer, they still stay on farm.
Perhaps they rent some land out, sell a few acres for pony paddocks, keep a few store cattle to be active farmers, make some horse hay and have a holiday let. The sub on 300 acres is the same as a full time job.
It's much easier than running an intensive farm and if they do sell it's always in lots as they get more money and can keep the house and any potential development land.
So I don't think you can blame contract farmers at least they are willing to do something with the land and have to make all their money from actual farming.
Young, keen non farmers don't have a chance anyway.

 

[lloyd]

Yep, our part timer has her own tractor and hedgecutter so she does that And works for our contract farms doing hedging (which is not part of the agreements). Ditches are generally up to date but usually hire a digger or a have a contractor do bits. Mole draining in the spring through spring crops and we have put in many thousands m of new headland drains which a contractor friend does as we don’t have a trencher (although looked into it recently but not cost effective to do it ourselves). All storage is CS. Overall it’s a cheaper way of doing it compared to employing 2/3 people for the whole year, every year.
time spend not physically working is spent at agronomy training and business strategy courses/meetings.

Who spreads your compost ,manure ?
Who loads and drives the lorries to the co operative grain store?

Are you sure your not being a bit conservative with the amount
of non family paid labour in your business?