FT

[Grass And Grain]

There are a lot of people growing roots and veg on a garden scale using no dig, regenerative methods. I often wonder if technology will one day enable those methods to be scaled up, to a commercial, field scale.

I don't suppose they're driving about with 8t harvesting rigs in the middle of winter. Or beet harvesters that weigh 40 tonnes, or spud harvesters working in mud in a wet autumn with ruts 10" deep. That said, some sort of controlled traffic gantry system could be useful.

Salad and veg growers I see seem to leave 25% of wasted crop in the field. I don't know what else you can do but rotavate it, then plough it down to get a fresh start. Never say never to change, but seems to be the usual method.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I don't suppose they're driving about with 8t harvesting rigs in the middle of winter. Or beet harvesters that weigh 40 tonnes, or spud harvesters working in mud in a wet autumn with ruts 10" deep. That said, some sort of controlled traffic gantry system could be useful.

Salad and veg growers I see seem to leave 25% of wasted crop in the field. I don't know what else you can do but rotavate it, then plough it down to get a fresh start. Never say never to change, but seems to be the usual method.

That's where technology could come in one day- to cut out the need for deep tillage, making beds, destoning, and enormous harvesters.
Could use small robots to allow selective harvesting to allow companion cropping etc.
The limit is our imagination.

 

[martian]

The article was really to bring soil to the notice of the people who make the decisions, it wasn't a begging letter so we could go and buy more machinery. The whole food system is a mess, from what we grow, through how we grow it and process it, to how it's marketed. That's not going to change overnight, but the crucial thing we need to be looking after is the soil. Healthy soil is good for the whole country, that is the point, it's not just us farmers that benefit. Flood prevention, drought prevention, carbon capture and storage, healthy food for healthy humans, clean air etc etc, it's a vital political point, yet all the idiots in power are concerned with is cheap food.

I took a drive through a veg growing area last weekend, I nearly wept. The carnage, the muddy rivers...we can't go on like this

 

[Suffolk Serf]

The article was really to bring soil to the notice of the people who make the decisions, it wasn't a begging letter so we could go and buy more machinery. The whole food system is a mess, from what we grow, through how we grow it and process it, to how it's marketed. That's not going to change overnight, but the crucial thing we need to be looking after is the soil. Healthy soil is good for the whole country, that is the point, it's not just us farmers that benefit. Flood prevention, drought prevention, carbon capture and storage, healthy food for healthy humans, clean air etc etc, it's a vital political point, yet all the idiots in power are concerned with is cheap food.

I took a drive through a veg growing area last weekend, I nearly wept. The carnage, the muddy rivers...we can't go on like this

Yes, there is nothing "green" about modern mass production of vegetables.

 

[D14]

I think grants for drills is pointless and only benefits the manufacturers.
however many of the principles or regen ag are applicable to all and should not be ignored or reduced down to ‘direct drilling’

It clearly benefits the farmers as well getting 40% off making it more affordable to many thousands more farmers than it would be without a grant.

Average farm size in the UK is about 100 acres. A 3m direct drill will be £30,000 which they simply could not afford. However a £18,000 drill spread over 10 years payback is affordable to them.

 

[ajd132]

It clearly benefits the farmers as well getting 40% off making it more affordable to many thousands more farmers than it would be without a grant.

Average farm size in the UK is about 100 acres. A 3m direct drill will be £30,000 which they simply could not afford. However a £18,000 drill spread over 10 years payback is affordable to them.

i have been told personally by numerous drill manufacturers they just bang the price up when the grants come along.

 

[Hindsight]

The article was really to bring soil to the notice of the people who make the decisions, it wasn't a begging letter so we could go and buy more machinery. The whole food system is a mess, from what we grow, through how we grow it and process it, to how it's marketed. That's not going to change overnight, but the crucial thing we need to be looking after is the soil. Healthy soil is good for the whole country, that is the point, it's not just us farmers that benefit. Flood prevention, drought prevention, carbon capture and storage, healthy food for healthy humans, clean air etc etc, it's a vital political point, yet all the idiots in power are concerned with is cheap food.

I took a drive through a veg growing area last weekend, I nearly wept. The carnage, the muddy rivers...we can't go on like this

Concur - would definitely look like carnage to a direct drill combinable crop farmer.

What would you propose for winter vegetables. So things like carrots, swedes, parsnips, Leeks, Cabbage.

Potatoes we lift and store - due primarily to difficulty lifting a tuber from a soil ridge and that the tubers will be damaged by freezing temperatures. Some other crops are stored - for example Celeriac. Maybe some beetroots.

Look forward to the suggestions from a farmer practicing regenerative techniques.

Best wishes,

 

[le bon paysan]

i have been told personally by numerous drill manufacturers they just bang the price up when the grants come along.

As my Mrs says.... you don't think they're going to let you keep it, do you?

 

[ajd132]

As my Mrs says.... you don't think they're going to let you keep it, do you?

I would do the same!

 

[Surgery]

If no till was compulsory last year there would have been sweet f/a grown , even Clive got fu?? All in the ground and what he did plant in the spring wasn’t much cop , what a load of sh1te

 

[PSQ]

That's where technology could come in one day- to cut out the need for deep tillage, making beds, destoning, and enormous harvesters.
Could use small robots to allow selective harvesting to allow companion cropping etc.

The limit is our imagination.

No, the limit is the bottom line, and the ability of the land manager to make the most of every tool available to him / her.
Whereas the militant 'no-till' day dreamers will be at the mercy of the seasons (2012/13, 2019/20 etc), without the safety net of subsidy to save them from themselves.

To those that seek to throw 'conventional farming' under the bus to promote 'no-till', spare us your pious clap trap please, we're not buying your bogus 'holier than thou' (but shhhh! - addicted to glyphosate) BS. We've suffered the 'organic' maniacs flinging mud, we're not going to tolerate any half baked f**kers desperately trying to copy them

 

[Will Blackburn]

Whereas the day dreamers and wet dreamers will be at the mercy of the seasons (2012/13, 2019/20 etc), without the safety net of subsidy to save them from themselves.

You wouldn't be so sensitive if you didn't think there was a grain of truth in it, don't worry you can still claim an early retirement payout.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

No, the limit is the bottom line, and the ability of the land manager to make the most of every tool available to him / her.
Whereas the more militant 'no-till' day dreamers and wet dreamers will be at the mercy of the seasons (2012/13, 2019/20 etc), without the safety net of subsidy to save them from themselves.

To those that seek to throw 'conventional farming' under the bus to promote 'no-till', spare us your pious clap trap please, we're not buying your bogus 'holier than thou' (but shhhh! - addicted to glyphosate) BS. We've suffered the 'organic' maniacs flinging mud, we're not going to tolerate any half baked fudgeers desperately trying to copy them

I sympathise to a certain extent- as an outdoor pig farmer I am a problem also!

 

[PSQ]

You wouldn't be so sensitive if you didn't think there was a grain of truth in it, don't worry you can still claim an early retirement payout.

I plough between cereals, I min-till in to, and out of, OSR. I'm free to use the best tool for the job as the seasons dictate, not left following some neo-religeous dogmatic cult.
If John Cherry and the members of the pseudo-scientific cult think they need to persuade parliament that theirs is the only true modern method of farming worth subsidising, it's not 'sensitivity', but it shows that he needs to create an economic imbalance to make DD more profitable than it actually is.

I sympathise to a certain extent- as an outdoor pig farmer I am a problem also!

One good thing that *might* come out of the war for the consumers wallets between conventional / organic / 'regen' / 'eco warrior' and Vegan, is the push to promote 'ethical omnivore' as a legitimate option.
As an outdoor pig farmer you are part of the solution.

 

[Will Blackburn]

I plough between cereals, I min-till in to, and out of, OSR. I'm free to use the best tool for the job as the seasons dictate, not left following some neo-religeous dogmatic cult.
If John Cherry and the members of the pseudo-scientific cult think they need to persuade parliament that theirs is the only true modern method of farming worth subsidising, it's not 'sensitivity', but it shows that he needs to create an economic imbalance to make DD more profitable than it actually is.

Overwhelmingly,

No subsidy = no tillage.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I plough between cereals, I min-till in to, and out of, OSR. I'm free to use the best tool for the job as the seasons dictate, not left following some neo-religeous dogmatic cult.
If John Cherry and the members of the pseudo-scientific cult think they need to persuade parliament that theirs is the only true modern method of farming worth subsidising, it's not 'sensitivity', but it shows that he needs to create an economic imbalance to make DD more profitable than it actually is.



One good thing that *might* come out of the war for the consumers wallets between conventional / organic / 'regen' / 'eco warrior' and Vegan, is the push to promote 'ethical omnivore' as a legitimate option.
As an outdoor pig farmer you are part of the solution.

This reminds me of all the whining and outrage when setaside came in. Everyone complied.

 

[PSQ]

Overwhelmingly,

No subsidy = no tillage.

And for the North,

No tillage = no crop.

(As opposed to the south, delayed drilling = no crop...)

This reminds me of all the whining and outrage when setaside came in. Everyone complied.

There’s a difference between ‘complied’, and ‘sub-hunting’, aka: playing the ‘non-food production’ rules like a deck of cards

 

[Will Blackburn]

And for the North,

No tillage = no crop.

I’m further north than the midlands and Wales , they manage in Scandinavia

 

[martian]

I'm intrigued to know what's so marvellous about the system we have now. We have got very good at growing various commodity crops which we can sell at the cost of production, plus or minus a few quid. In doing so we are knackering our soils, depleting the local wildlife, polluting the atmosphere and water systems and generally being part of the problem, rather than the solution. It's what we're used to, but the joy of the whole regenerative agriculture movement is that a lot of farmers have worked out for themselves a better way of doing things. This is the beginning of a revolution; we don't have all the answers, but farmers are making up some brilliant techniques for growing healthy crops and animals, which don't need protecting so much, at the same time as improving their soils. It's not a pseudo-scientific cult. The 'science' is struggling to catch up, this is a farmer-led revolution. It's in the farmer's interest, not the agronomist's, nor the tractor salesman's.

This thread is very much a cage-rattling exercise. Seems to be working.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I plough between cereals, I min-till in to, and out of, OSR. I'm free to use the best tool for the job as the seasons dictate, not left following some neo-religeous dogmatic cult.
If John Cherry and the members of the pseudo-scientific cult think they need to persuade parliament that theirs is the only true modern method of farming worth subsidising, it's not 'sensitivity', but it shows that he needs to create an economic imbalance to make DD more profitable than it actually is.



One good thing that *might* come out of the war for the consumers wallets between conventional / organic / 'regen' / 'eco warrior' and Vegan, is the push to promote 'ethical omnivore' as a legitimate option.
As an outdoor pig farmer you are part of the solution.

We don't do it because we are in a cult. We do it because it's easier, it works, it's cheaper and it's good for the soil! You've got it all so arse about face it's funny!