FTTP on Demand

[Pheasant Surprise]

For better or worse Ive now pressed ahead on the FTTPoD detailed survey. Do or be dammed I guess.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

So by way of minor update, on the 10th of this month Cerberus confirmed that OpenReach had got themselves around to logging the FTTP on demand survey request on their system and I would be given a date at some point for the actual survey to be done.

Any possible build dates at this rate could be well into 2019. Phew things move sloooooooooowly in the world of fibre to the premises.

Anyhow after having a closer bo peep of the local infrastructure situation myself, I’ve worked out that the local fibre down the lane (installed in April last year) to my place stops about 5 poles away or a smidge over 270 metres to the house. Some shown below.

Not a BT fibre expert by any stretch, but I think this is a “blown” fibre rather than “connectorised” solution. Apparently they do a lot more of the latter recently as it cuts down BT’s install cost as they literally just plug in a long extension cable with plugs at either end.

So I await my final install “excess build charges” with baited breath

 

[foxbox]

So by way of minor update, on the 10th of this month Cerberus confirmed that OpenReach had got themselves around to logging the FTTP on demand survey request on their system and I would be given a date at some point for the actual survey to be done.

Any possible build dates at this rate could be well into 2019. Phew things move sloooooooooowly in the world of fibre to the premises.

Anyhow after having a closer bo peep of the local infrastructure situation myself, I’ve worked out that the local fibre down the lane (installed in April last year) to my place stops about 5 poles away or a smidge over 270 metres to the house. Some shown below.

Not a BT fibre expert by any stretch, but I think this is a “blown” fibre rather than “connectorised” solution. Apparently they do a lot more of the latter recently as it cuts down BT’s install cost as they literally just plug in a long extension cable with plugs at either end.

View attachment 705932

So I await my final install “excess build charges” with baited breath

Looks like a quality install too...

I wonder if it's just as simple as them opening that container and plugging another extension lead in to that for you, or has your service got to run right back to the cabinet?

 

[sleepy]

So by way of minor update, on the 10th of this month Cerberus confirmed that OpenReach had got themselves around to logging the FTTP on demand survey request on their system and I would be given a date at some point for the actual survey to be done.

Any possible build dates at this rate could be well into 2019. Phew things move sloooooooooowly in the world of fibre to the premises.

Anyhow after having a closer bo peep of the local infrastructure situation myself, I’ve worked out that the local fibre down the lane (installed in April last year) to my place stops about 5 poles away or a smidge over 270 metres to the house. Some shown below.

Not a BT fibre expert by any stretch, but I think this is a “blown” fibre rather than “connectorised” solution. Apparently they do a lot more of the latter recently as it cuts down BT’s install cost as they literally just plug in a long extension cable with plugs at either end.

View attachment 705932

So I await my final install “excess build charges” with baited breath

I could be wrong but I don't think that's an aggregation node, just a splice box. Agg nodes are much bigger

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Looks like a quality install too...

I wonder if it's just as simple as them opening that container and plugging another extension lead in to that for you, or has your service got to run right back to the cabinet?

Apparently it’s quite different to regular FTTC/Superfast BB where the fibre runs from the exchange to the local cabinet, where the DSL line cards are installed, from which broadband services then run to premises over the regular copper.

With FTTP the fibre runs directly from the ‘head end’ exchange (probably not be your local copper exchange) it then runs to so called aggregation nodes (AN) - usually underground - where it’s split and from there to further splitters - those black things up the pole - where it’s split out again.

The architecture that BT use to deliver FTTP is called GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network).

Quality install that ain’t it? Grade A1 for ugliness Here’s some more choice pics...

 

[Steevo]

Do Gigaclesr run a similar process @Pheasant Surprise?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I could be wrong but I don't think that's an aggregation node, just a splice box. Agg nodes are much bigger

Nope you’re right it’s definitely not an Ag Node that. There are around 10 of those units on poles on the run to mine. They’re certainly not all Ag Nodes.

Fairly sure this is a blown fibre install.

Photos below is where the roughly 750 metre run along the poles to my place ends, where it runs down the pole. There is an FTTC cab for copper broadband about 20 feet away.

Need to have a closer look in the village where I suspect the main Ag Node is - think it is down beneath another set of manholes near an intersection about another 1/2 mile away.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Do Gigaclesr run a similar process @Pheasant Surprise?

Nope completely different in all respects as far as I’m aware.

 

[sleepy]

Nope you’re right it’s definitely not an Ag Node that. Need to have a closer look in the village where I suspect the main Ag Node is. Fairly sure this is a blown fibre install.

This is where the roughly 750 metre run along the poles to my place ends, where it runs down the pole. There is an FTTC cab for copper about 20 feet away.

I think the main Ag Node is down beneath another set of manholes near an intersection about another 1/2 mile away.

View attachment 706296 View attachment 706298

I don't fully understand, but in my case, despite having a very similar fibre optic splitter on a pole right next to our office, to get fttp, the fibre had to be run about 5 miles back to the aggregation node. Apparently the splitter was only for feeding the fttc cab, and no provision had been made for fttp during fttc rollout

That's why your quote was so big. I was exactly the same. I got a quote for like 10 grand and thought this is surely rubbish.

 

[Steevo]

Just found this which you might find interesting....sounds like it’ll be cheaper than £39k to install!

Hope that helps you budget!!

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...ality-uk-fttp-demand-broadband-hits-home.html

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Just found this which you might find interesting....sounds like it’ll be cheaper than £39k to install!

Hope that helps you budget!!

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...ality-uk-fttp-demand-broadband-hits-home.html

I’m hoping the actual quote to do the work to string up 300m odd of tubing along five poles and blow a fibre down the end, and splice the ends comes to well under what the £4,900 +VAT desktop quote was. Then there’s the £3K DCMS grant offset to take into account....

So my big gamble is it will be almost cost neutral to install.

Then there’s the small matter of my exchange previously being Market A and getting charged a surcharge almost as much as the FTTP rental, around £1150 per year!!

However Ofcom just published a new Wholesale Broadband Connect market report in July (they do one every 4 years how fortunate eh) and my exchange is now graded Market B - so in theory when BT Wholesale adjust their GEA-FTTP prices then Cerberus drops the Market A surcharge to me....

All these charges are kind of mad when I’ve dug in myself probably over a kilometre of fibre around the farm to hook things up. But then my trenching costs are a bit cheaper than OpenReach which must use gold tipped shovels

 

[J B]

Man in the pub told me that a business near our house is having FTTP installed.
32 poles to carry it
120K bill

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I don't fully understand, but in my case, despite having a very similar fibre optic splitter on a pole right next to our office, to get fttp, the fibre had to be run about 5 miles back to the aggregation node. Apparently the splitter was only for feeding the fttc cab, and no provision had been made for fttp during fttc rollout

That's why your quote was so big. I was exactly the same. I got a quote for like 10 grand and thought this is surely rubbish.

Your FTTPoD quote would have been on the old banded quote scheme (your radial distance from the ag. node), as per the old price list here.

FTTP on Demand Distance Based Charge
N.B. This variable connection charge will be raised in addition to the fixed connection charge

96% of premises are expected to be within 2km of the nearest NGA Aggregation Node, and these will be covered by distance bands A to G.

Approximately 4% of premises are 2km or further from the exchange, and although we are able to provide service to these premises, the costs to do so reflect the greater distances over which we would need to build the network to provide service.

OpenReach changed to the current quoting scheme in February - apparently most desktop quotes, where people had quotes on the ‘old’ system have gone up, substantially. However when the surveys are competed in many cases the actual excess build charges reduce quite substantially.

I’m not sure there’s a direct correlation, between old and new quoting system.

However that aside, for a “wet finger in the air”, taking my current desktop quote, would place me somewhere between 1500 and 2000 metres radially from the Ag. Node.

What’s clear is that they will need to install almost 300 metres of aerial ducting along 5 poles to join me up to what’s already there.

What’s not clear is whether they will need to blow new fibre / splice all the way back to the ag node, or whether they can splice at some point far closer to me.

Capital install costs to one side, one of the better changes since February, was BT Wholesale shortening the minimum term for FTTPoD from 36 months down to 12 months.

Under the old scheme this would have been a real deal breaker. Now after 12 months, you're eligible to move off the expensive "on demand" tariff and onto a much cheaper “ordinary” FTTP tariff.

In the case of Cerberus this means a monthly reduction from around £100/month to around £40-45/month. A big saving over 3 years.

The other big change that affects me directly is the change from Market A to Market B exchange classification, which halves the monthly charges.

 

[upnortheast]

Man in the pub told me that a business near our house is having FTTP installed.
32 poles to carry it
120K bill

That`s savage, What sort of a business can justify that ?

 

[J B]

That`s savage, What sort of a business can justify that ?

I'm not sure which business it is. There are two in the area, one into renewable energy and one who make cast iron stuff, but only their offices are near us. Bizarrely, both these business are on the 'town' exchange but they are getting FTTP from our village exchange as it's closer IIRC

I'll have to ask the 'man in the pub' for more info ....

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I'm not sure which business it is. There are two in the area, one into renewable energy and one who make cast iron stuff, but only their offices are near us. Bizarrely, both these business are on the 'town' exchange but they are getting FTTP from our village exchange as it's closer IIRC

I'll have to ask the 'man in the pub' for more info ....

FTTP doesn't originate from the same exchange as your copper line or even FTTC line.

FTTP comes from what is known as a GEA Head-end Exchange. There are a lot fewer of these in the country (numbering several hundred) than regular exchanges (numbering about 5,500).

My nearest serving copper exchange is about 3.5 miles away by road. I found out that my head-end exchange for FTTP is Ipswich (EAIPS), about 10 miles away.

 

[Fowler VF]

The whole fibre thing and broadband is just so frustrating and has been a licence for rip off for far too long. I sense that things are now changing and BT are about to get their come uppance though!!

My history on this site goes like this. When fibre was first talked about I realised that fast connectivity would become more and more important. The business I ran on the farm site needed extra phone lines, an insider from BT advised us to apply for ISDN 30. He knew that the existing lines wouldn't support this, but he also knew that BT were still under the post privatisation rules and if you asked for it they had to provide it at a standard and capped cost. So for £5,000 we got it installed, BT had to lay over 3 miles of ducted fibre, directly from us to the exchange. This was 20 years ago!

Move forward a number of years, the business using the ISDN 30 had moved on, but the fibre cable was still in place. Broadband connection on the old copper lines was half a meg on a good day. Asked BT for a fibre to premises connection using the existing cable. Refused; " fibre is not enabled in your area"; just wouldn't accept that it was already on the premises, the marketing script didn't allow for any variations, FTP seemed to be only available where there was a direct competitor, like Virgin with their own cables. Eventually in desperation the only way to get a connection was to pay for a 100mb leased line with a private provider, over £10,000 per year! (BT wanted £15,000 per year) Had to sign for a three year contract, which has just ended. Existing provider is only offering a small discount to renew, BT want £4,600 per year, so a lot better now, but still extortionate and they are demanding a 5 year contract. Gigaclear are moving into the area, and reckon to be able to come to us within a few months, they will apparently be digging in a completely new line and new connection, but only want £1,027 per year for the same 100mb service and only a 2 year contract! So what on earth are BT up to, no costs of laying the cable, its been there 20 years and is already connected? Just shows how they have been abusing their monopoly position, both in their own charges and in their charges to other providers for their system, and are still up to it.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I feel your frustration @Fowler VF but the ISDN30 connection would have been delivered on a dedicated 2 Mbps bearer service direct to an exchange.

Although the fibre is there, laid and run it is fundamentally a different service to FTTP. There is absolutely no way BT could deliver FTTP over that link.

Your existing fibre is basically a leased line service. Despite what some on here or elsewhere may be led to believe - FTTP from BT is not a dedicated home-run connection, like a leased line.

FTTP is shared / contended amongst several hundred or more users both physically in how the fibre is “split” from the head-end exchange and also how it’s access at the exchange is “backhauled” by your ISP from the exchange.

Albeit all this is at much higher speeds than copper but nevertheless it is categorically not in the same family of products as leased lines / IPclear / MPLS and the like. The pricing of the product reflects this.

I’m certainly not apologising for BT or OpenSheep here, just pointing out what is and is not technically and physically possible.

 

[Fowler VF]

Thanks for the response. This is the first time that anyone has given me clear answer on the conundrum. I forgot to mention that another tenant took over the office space after the ISDN30 had ended and they operated a genuine leased line to allow them to link to head office. I am not aware that there were any physical changes made to the fibre cable itself, certainly never saw a new cable laid but of course cant see what was done at the exchange. The leased line was dropped when the tenants moved out. I had it re-activated and have used it for the last three years. £10,000 per year is a hefty bill, but priceless if it actually allows you to run a business and be able to work on line. The service has been pretty good, we genuinely do see speeds of 100mb; but frustratingly do also see dips in speed from time to time, which has often made me wonder if our connection was genuinely un-contested. Its probably only conspiracy theory, but whenever I use a speed checker and notice lower speeds if I check again within a few minutes we seem to be back up to full speed!!

So, where I am out now is that Gigagclear are offering a FTTP service, but not available for another 6 months. I get the feeling from what you are saying is that this might not be a strict like for like comparison and that we might be back into drops in speed when others along the line are using. In the mean time I have had an offer of £320/month to provide the leased line as it currently is. Given that I will be over £6k a year better off, I am inclined to go with this and at least keep the service. Being able to access the internet and do file transfers at speed has transformed our business, and has allowed me to attract other tenants to site.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

So, where I am out now is that Gigagclear are offering a FTTP service, but not available for another 6 months. I get the feeling from what you are saying is that this might not be a strict like for like comparison and that we might be back into drops in speed when others along the line are using. In the mean time I have had an offer of £320/month to provide the leased line as it currently is. Given that I will be over £6k a year better off, I am inclined to go with this and at least keep the service. Being able to access the internet and do file transfers at speed has transformed our business, and has allowed me to attract other tenants to site.

Correct not strictly like for like, but would it be good enough for a small/medium business with a couple of employees? Yes quite easily, they are marketing FTTP directly to this market.

So unless your business is hosting some mega server farms or otherwise massively bandwidth intensive apps, or sending vast streams of email then an FTTP service would be totally fine.

For all intents and purposes what Gigaclear and the like do is lay their own local fibre distribution network from a POP (point of presence) where they pickup/share one or more BT (or virgin media etc) leased line circuits amongst their subscribers. That’s really the basic gist of it.