Furlough Fall out

[Charlie Gill]

No, heard from a few different employers that it's a struggle getting some staff in and motivated after furlough. They've had a taste of the easy life and like it.

I guess they obviously don't need the £

 

[Woolless]

I guess they obviously don't need the £

Easy enough to make up the shortfall if no commuting costs, lunch to buy etc. and of course they can still take on other work if they want. I would gladly sacrifice 20% of my employed income if I was allowed to sit at home. But then I have a workshop and office which desperately need a clean out!

 

[Charlie Gill]

Easy enough to make up the shortfall if no commuting costs, lunch to buy etc. and of course they can still take on other work if they want. I would gladly sacrifice 20% of my employed income if I was allowed to sit at home. But then I have a workshop and office which desperately need a clean out!

If there's no reason for them to be on furlough and they won't return to the workplace then their wages should be stopped and P45's printed.

 

[ollie989898]

If there's no reason for them to be on furlough and they won't return to the workplace then their wages should be stopped and P45's printed.

This is what will happen- employers are having to pay 20% I think from 1st August? So firms will either tell people to come back to work or stop paying and P45 them.

 

[JCMaloney]

Ah yes, but what are the legalities behind getting folk back to work?
I bet it's not as simple as you are back in on X date or you get your P45 the day after.
Legislative minefield I would say.
Probably needs to be some sort of phased return to get them used to it.....

 

[ollie989898]

Ah yes, but what are the legalities behind getting folk back to work?
I bet it's not as simple as you are back in on X date or you get your P45 the day after.
Legislative minefield I would say.
Probably needs to be some sort of phased return to get them used to it.....

If an employer asks you to return to work and you do not, you are in breach of your work contract, surely?

 

[Charlie Gill]

Ah yes, but what are the legalities behind getting folk back to work?
I bet it's not as simple as you are back in on X date or you get your P45 the day after.
Legislative minefield I would say.
Probably needs to be some sort of phased return to get them used to it.....

Well obviously they'd need to give their other employer 7 days notice

 

[Hfd Cattle]

The issues with track and trace is just as costly but to the employer and not the GVT.
Friend of ours has 34% of his workers on T&T absence and he has no evidence that it is genuine ....apparently they don't have to prove it and it is illegal for him to ask them to !

 

[JCMaloney]

If an employer asks you to return to work and you do not, you are in breach of your work contract, surely?

Depends on said contract......... "I`m worried my employer hasn`t done enough to mitigate Covid under H&S regs" will be the new ambulance chasing.

Out of our team at work the risk assessments said a chubby, 56 year old, fully jabbed, white male is defined as lowest risk so I just turn the bluetooth off on my phone and go in.
Got the office to myself, rather enjoying the peace & quiet to be honest!
As we are 90% electronic/digital I just pick up the 10% and dip into the other stuff.

 

[Exfarmer]

And how many on Furlough have gone home to Eastern Europe and now have found a second job ( quite legally) which may pay a little less but has no travel, no shite from ignorant managers and working with people who do not think they are superior to you

 

[Pasty]

How many people were working full time in shite min wage jobs which got turned off overnight and realised that they were better off going another way. No tax. No Council tax. No child support which their ex would spend on Amazon or holidays anyway. How many people took 6 months to sit down and re-asses their lives and simply refuse to work for these crap companies who treat them like sheep with no pension, no holiday, no sick pay. All these f**kers are now crying that they can't get staff. Go f**k yourselves.

 

[Woolless]

How many people were working full time in shite min wage jobs which got turned off overnight and realised that they were better off going another way. No tax. No Council tax. No child support which their ex would spend on Amazon or holidays anyway. How many people took 6 months to sit down and re-asses their lives and simply refuse to work for these crap companies who treat them like sheep with no pension, no holiday, no sick pay. All these fudgeers are now crying that they can't get staff. Go fudge yourselves.

That is a very good point. All the power has appeared to be on the employers' side for years. I've been hearing about a shortage of lorry drivers for years but no sign of better pay or conditions. Their hand has now been forced.

 

[Pasty]

That is a very good point. All the power has appeared to be on the employers' side for years. I've been hearing about a shortage of lorry drivers for years but no sign of better pay or conditions. Their hand has now been forced.

But they can't pay because it's all agency. Faking employees as self employed, gig economy. It's come home to roost.

 

[Exfarmer]

But they can't pay because it's all agency. Faking employees as self employed, gig economy. It's come home to roost.

Not good if you are Mr Wetherspoon and all your cheap Polish employees have gone back to their previous jobs in the Polish health service. The last years 80% has meant a real bonus to the meagre wages there
They wont be back in a hurry to serve cheap beer and food to ignorant racist louts in a hurry

 

[Pasty]

Not good if you are Mr Wetherspoon and all your cheap Polish employees have gone back to their previous jobs in the Polish health service. The last years 80% has meant a real bonus to the meagre wages there
They wont be back in a hurry to serve cheap beer and food to ignorant racist louts in a hurry

Fine by me. Never been to a Wetherspoons. His business is his business. Do you think ignorant racist louts only visit this venue or are there others out there in various form of hospitality location? Sounds scary.

 

[ollie989898]

How many people were working full time in shite min wage jobs which got turned off overnight and realised that they were better off going another way. No tax. No Council tax. No child support which their ex would spend on Amazon or holidays anyway. How many people took 6 months to sit down and re-asses their lives and simply refuse to work for these crap companies who treat them like sheep with no pension, no holiday, no sick pay. All these fudgeers are now crying that they can't get staff. Go fudge yourselves.

I'm afraid you may have a point. I don't think I can find much sympathy for minimum wage employers as few can afford to live on the wages involved as I have elaborated on before. The NHS mind, I would bet is one of the largest employers who have a lot of people on minimum wage. I see in the news that healthcare workers were recently given a 3% payrise, which includes nurses, doctors and the like but no mention of the minimum wage HCAs or the housekeepers or porters who actually keep the gears turning?

Employers scream that they cannot find good reliable staff and yet refuse to pay more than £8.91 an hour? £8.91 sounds like a lot of money until you remember that tax, NI and pension provision has to be drawn from it.

Until there is a sea change in this situation I honestly fear the country will remain stagnant because it has no real legs. You can't tell me that entire business models will fail if their bottom rung staff were all paid £12 an hour instead of that being paid currently? I bet the motivation and calibre of staff would improve if more money was on offer and business performance would probably increase as a result?

 

[Pasty]

I think the NHS is no longer fit for purpose to be honest. I have had multiple dealings in the last month due to old age (not me) and reactions from vaccines and they are completely useless. Ambulance in south Devon? 5 hours. Sweet. Taxi!. Seriously.

All the people doing the running around are the lowest paid. The job is f**ked and it seems to me that it's not the fault of the govt. NHS needs serious reform. It's crap.

 

[ollie989898]

I think the NHS is no longer fit for purpose to be honest. I have had multiple dealings in the last month due to old age (not me) and reactions from vaccines and they are completely useless. Ambulance in south Devon? 5 hours. Sweet. Taxi!. Seriously.

All the people doing the running around are the lowest paid. The job is fudgeed and it seems to me that it's not the fault of the govt. NHS needs serious reform. It's crap.

I don't know anything about the NHS in Devon but there is no such thing as the NHS as a single entity nor one unified ambulance 'service'. The system is fragmented into multiple trusts, all owned and operated separately. Some may even be privately owned. As you can imagine, it may be that certain organisations and even individuals at the levers of power feel a vested interest in maintaining their utility/existence and building a little fiefdom. Some of these providing organisations may perform a lot better than others, either in terms of financial performance, customer satisfaction or the like. You will also see some differences in how a particular trust operates. For example, I cannot, for the life of me, see why any NHS organisation would ever need anyone involved in 'marketing' but believe me such roles exist.

Having been inside the inner workings a bit I can tell you that there are many dissenting voices from within the ranks of medical staff who can see the problems as clearly as the patients on the outside. I don't know what the answer is but there is a lot of politics involved and a lot of government initiatives, even good ones, will never work because senior NHS managers will push back against them out of fear that their own organisation might lose out and their role cease to exist. This is one reason why you will never in a million years see a single piece of computer software used across the entirety of the NHS providers that gives universal access to patient data across multiple sites or organisations despite the huge amount of time and grief it would save.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

You can't tell me that entire business models will fail if their bottom rung staff were all paid £12 an hour instead of that being paid currently? I bet the motivation and calibre of staff would improve if more money was on offer and business performance would probably increase as a result?

Depends if those staff still had a job to go to. Do you think employers are still going to have a human do a job when it can be automated for a lower hourly cost? It's also worth bearing in mind that the employer looks at total cost for each hour worked. That £12/hr increases to circa £15/hr once you factor in employers NICs, pension contributions, and 28 days paid holiday per annum.

 

[Pasty]

Depends if those staff still had a job to go to. Do you think employers are still going to have a human do a job when it can be automated for a lower hourly cost? It's also worth bearing in mind that the employer looks at total cost for each hour worked. That £12/hr increases to circa £15/hr once you factor in employers NICs, pension contributions, and 28 days paid holiday per annum.

That's probably true but a few years / decades away. Computing power expands exponentially so not sure which. The human touch will always be popular. Do we really want to stroll to the village pub and be served Soylent Green by our robot server in our enclosed booth or would we rather it be as usual with Jus or John or Jack or me at the bar, a whole load of P taking, lost tourists, mad street dogs and a bloody good night had by all with friends you will have forever? That, to me is life. My family is half farm (all of Torquay pre WW2) and half pub (Babbacombe). I love both.