Future of the Sheep Industry

[D.S.S18]

with Br*xit on the horizon, I keep hearing mixed reports from different parts of the industry regarding the future of the sheep industry -

just wondering what members of TFF thoughts are about the future.

personally - I feel it will make us look at our costs to ensure a lamb is making money - many people don't know this, but is going large the way to survive or run small and add an additional income stream to the business.

 

[Werzle]

Sh#t could hit the fan during april/may regarding export lambs if its a no deal B but long term once deals are done it will be business as usual and better imo. Take a bit of short term pain for long term gain any day. If subs end we will all learn to adapt to it

 

[neilo]

with Br*xit on the horizon, I keep hearing mixed reports from different parts of the industry regarding the future of the sheep industry -

just wondering what members of TFF thoughts are about the future.

personally - I feel it will make us look at our costs to ensure a lamb is making money - many people don't know this, but is going large the way to survive or run small and add an additional income stream to the business.

Brexit may, or may not, cause a massive short term upheaval. Eventually, once the dust settles, I suspect everything will be business as usual. Nothing will have changed apart from ag policy will be entirely in the hands of the likes of Gove, ably advised by Monbiot and friends.

May I ask the question as to why you haven’t already looked at your costs to ensure a lamb is making money (or at least, losing less)? The job’s not been a license to print for a very long time.

 

[muleman]

Brexit may, or may not, cause a massive short term upheaval. Eventually, once the dust settles, I suspect everything will be business as usual. Nothing will have changed apart from ag policy will be entirely in the hands of the likes of Gove, ably advised by Monbiot and friends.

May I ask the question as to why you haven’t already looked at your costs to ensure a lamb is making money (or at least, losing less)? The job’s not been a license to print for a very long time.

Thats why we need change....to not be tied to the EU and to have a chance to find new markets.

 

[CopperBeech]

There are bigger issues than brexit.

 

[DrDunc]

Lamb and mutton will continue to be sold for less than the cost of production

It remains to be seen if losses become as large as rearing beef

Small and diversified or large and factory farming

Why should it be different to the mass production methods already in practice for pork, chicken, and dairy?

The family hill farm will be the first to go. Just remember though, he who dies with the most toys, wins

 

[CopperBeech]

Do you reckon lamb is currently sold below cost of production?

And is large always ‘factory farming’?

 

[Tim W]

Do you reckon lamb is currently sold below cost of production?

And is large always ‘factory farming’?

My lamb isn't sold below the COP

Large doesn't necessarily mean factory but it can mean repetitive because of the nature of handling large numbers

 

[D.S.S18]

Brexit may, or may not, cause a massive short term upheaval. Eventually, once the dust settles, I suspect everything will be business as usual. Nothing will have changed apart from ag policy will be entirely in the hands of the likes of Gove, ably advised by Monbiot and friends.

May I ask the question as to why you haven’t already looked at your costs to ensure a lamb is making money (or at least, losing less)? The job’s not been a license to print for a very long time.

I am fortunate to know the cost of my production - and I find it is viable without BPS - which I don't claim. although if land rents increase then I may have to re evaluate

 

[Al R]

Do you reckon lamb is currently sold below cost of production?

And is large always ‘factory farming’?

This annoys me too, a lot of the “factory farms” as their labelled are extremely good dairy farmers with cow comfort/health at the forefront of their priority, often some have full time vets. There are more small dairy guys I’d be hesitant about compared to any of the bigger herds.

I can see sheepmeat prices dropping for a few months and then restablising at the current rate or higher than current over the next few years as markets appear. China/japan/Asia are taking A LOT of sheepmeat from around the world which can only be a good thing, especially from the Southern Hemisphere, that’s their local market and we need to utilise all of ours.

Everyone has completely different COP’s obviously.. Reading a lot of people’s systems over the last few years I really can’t believe how many inputs some people use between everything and still overwinter on other people’s ground etc, every few weeks tack is 1/2 kg of lamb gone.

Whether the under 500 ewe flocks are financially viable I’m not sure, that’s farm/person dependent. I can see people of this size downsizing to 250 and having a part time job elsewhere, or they jump to 1000 ewes if the land surrounding them allows the expansion. Suckler herds the same, is someone with 60 sucklers going to jump to 120 or scale back to 25/30 and do another job?

 

[JP1]

This annoys me too, a lot of the “factory farms” as their labelled are extremely good dairy farmers with cow comfort/health at the forefront of their priority, often some have full time vets. There are more small dairy guys I’d be hesitant about compared to any of the bigger herds.

I can see sheepmeat prices dropping for a few months and then restablising at the current rate or higher than current over the next few years as markets appear. China/japan/Asia are taking A LOT of sheepmeat from around the world which can only be a good thing, especially from the Southern Hemisphere, that’s their local market and we need to utilise all of ours.

Everyone has completely different COP’s obviously.. Reading a lot of people’s systems over the last few years I really can’t believe how many inputs some people use between everything and still overwinter on other people’s ground etc, every few weeks tack is 1/2 kg of lamb gone.

Whether the under 500 ewe flocks are financially viable I’m not sure, that’s farm/person dependent. I can see people of this size downsizing to 250 and having a part time job elsewhere, or they jump to 1000 ewes if the land surrounding them allows the expansion. Suckler herds the same, is someone with 60 sucklers going to jump to 120 or scale back to 25/30 and do another job?

Good management means good welfare IMHO. "Intensive" and "Factory" and "Indoor" are used pejoratively. I see good indoor and good outdoor livestock units. I prefer the term precision agriculture

 

[Al R]

Good management means good welfare IMHO. "Intensive" and "Factory" and "Indoor" are used pejoratively. I see good indoor and good outdoor livestock units. I prefer the term precision agriculture

I know but it really winds me up when people who havnt seen an intensive indoor unit say bad things about them and how all cows should be out all year etc... I’ve seen shed gates open onto fields on plenty of occasions and only 1-2 cows will walk out, the rest prefer to be inside, same as the egg laying farms, the option is there for them to go out but they prefer to be inside, where it’s warm and where the best food is

 

[JP1]

I know but it really winds me up when people who havnt seen an intensive indoor unit say bad things about them and how all cows should be out all year etc... I’ve seen shed gates open onto fields on plenty of occasions and only 1-2 cows will walk out, the rest prefer to be inside, same as the egg laying farms, the option is there for them to go out but they prefer to be inside, where it’s warm and where the best food is

My friend in Stowmarket has a free range egg unit and all the hens go out and almost planted 1 per m2. The only one I've ever seen like it and must be due to low fear of air predation I reckon. Hens are jungle fowl and my Grandad's old barn system was by far the best in my opinion.

"Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field".

Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[livestock 1]

There is a misconception that bigger is the easy way. Bigger businesses are harder to run the peaks and troughs are further extended. Generally takes more dealing with

 

[capfits]

When we say sheep industry we surely mean the whole chain?
Might not just be market access, but also the little things like shearer's ( a lot do £30k/ annum?) and the many overseas workers that are employed in the cutting and processing part of the industry.
Oh and the little issue of an ever changing market for sheep meat.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Do you reckon lamb is currently sold below cost of production?

And is large always ‘factory farming’?

It is if you want to discredit it. A valuable phrase to the militant vegans.

 

[Global ovine]

Lamb and mutton will continue to be sold for less than the cost of production

It remains to be seen if losses become as large as rearing beef

Small and diversified or large and factory farming

Why should it be different to the mass production methods already in practice for pork, chicken, and dairy?

The family hill farm will be the first to go. Just remember though, he who dies with the most toys, wins

Why would farmers continue with a system where they are losing money? Land use changes will occur if system changes cannot be accommodated either by them or the next farmer occupiers.

It was hill country farmers that commentators claimed would be the inevitable first casualties of NZ's economic reforms in the mid 1980s. Some system changes (grazing management and sheep genetics), some farm amalgamations to gain scale and a good dollop of business knowledge has turned this farming sector into a vibrant and healthy industry that now comprises around 80% of NZ's breeding ewes and beef breed cows.
All around the world, sheep breeding occupies land that most other farming sectors find either marginal or impossible. Sheep farming is the classic land use "default option". Only forestry offers any competition in temperate zones.
Adapt or depart. If a current system doesn't work then try changing the system.

 

[CharcoalWally]

I know but it really winds me up when people who havnt seen an intensive indoor unit say bad things about them and how all cows should be out all year etc... I’ve seen shed gates open onto fields on plenty of occasions and only 1-2 cows will walk out, the rest prefer to be inside, same as the egg laying farms, the option is there for them to go out but they prefer to be inside, where it’s warm and where the best food is

I was interviewed by a young lady recently who sought my views on "factory farming".

I replied that I could not condemn something that I'd never seen, as indeed I've never been shown round a "factory farm", whatever that is. I replied that the standard of management and infrastructure would be key to the success of a large scale unit, as well as a willingness to not compromise on the basics of animal welfare, and show the stock the same respect that a small scale unit would. Those things given, I have no problem with large scale units.

I would keep an open mind, if something fails, then it fails, be that large or small.

 

[Al R]

I was interviewed by a young lady recently who sought my views on "factory farming".

I replied that I could not condemn something that I'd never seen, as indeed I've never been shown round a "factory farm", whatever that is. I replied that the standard of management and infrastructure would be key to the success of a large scale unit, as well as a willingness to not compromise on the basics of animal welfare, and show the stock the same respect that a small scale unit would. Those things given, I have no problem with large scale units.

I would keep an open mind, if something fails, then it fails, be that large or small.

Thanks! You said it far better than I could!

 

[Woolless]

My friend in Stowmarket has a free range egg unit and all the hens go out and almost planted 1 per m2. The only one I've ever seen like it and must be due to low fear of air predation I reckon. Hens are jungle fowl and my Grandad's old barn system was by far the best in my opinion.

"Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field".

Dwight D. Eisenhower

OT but someone on here had done a proper study of systems for laying hens and came up with the same conclusion as you and your Grandad.

Back on topic, no deal brexit will lead to a major reduction in numbers, just a question of timescale. Ahdb have just done some work on this, although it states the obvious imo.

If a deal is made, the reduction in subs will flush out those whose sheep are being carried by their sfp.