G59 Upgrade - NATIONAL GRID MANDATORY UPGRADE

[Exfarmer]

If the inverters do not have loss of mains protection, do they try to power the grid when the incoming mains fails? Surely every device capable of export must have some type of loss of mains protection?

most inverters will only produce power if they are being fed power, I am unaware of any that do not unless they are made for off grid use.
The relay is only a secondary back up.
It seems that the national grid did not understand the systems used by smaller generators to feed into the grid, when they decided on their upgrade following the widespread black out a couple of years ago caused by one smaller power station failing, which resulted in one of the big wind farms tripping out due to low voltage. This caused a ripple effect with extensive tripping of many of the smaller generators so the automatic systems could not get going again.
They then announced the LOM programme and demanded all G59 switches to be updated to different settings but some of the inverter manufacturers decided not to play ball and demanded that all inverters should be replaced completely if this was the case, as they could not easily change the settings and were concerned about claims if there inverter failed after.
Eventually National grid realised the problem and decided only G59 relays needed replacing. in theory they should now work behind the inverters so are really redundant.
This is as I understand things!

 

[Chickcatcher]

@Exfarmer How ever do the inverters know when the Mains power is not available. When my power fails I loose the solar inverters even when the back up generators are running they will not connect, wont even try to activate.

 

[Exfarmer]

@Exfarmer How ever do the inverters know when the Mains power is not available. When my power fails I loose the solar inverters even when the back up generators are running they will not connect, wont even try to activate.

I believe its all to do with Sine waves, but I honestly have no clue at all what a sine wave is, but it seems not all electricity is the same

 

[Chickcatcher]

I believe its all to do with Sine waves, but I honestly have no clue at all what a sine wave is, but it seems not all electricity is the same

OHHHHHHHH perhaps its to do with Huawei and they are listening into my gobble degook expecting something intelligent.
Sun shining in North Herts Meter read for my 4Kw Solar for July quarter =1472Kw will try to see how it compares 16.17Kw /day
Highest production since install for the period 1st April to 25th July, 1999Kw. Install 2012

 

[Colin Lockwood]

If the inverters do not have loss of mains protection, do they try to power the grid when the incoming mains fails? Surely every device capable of export must have some type of loss of mains protection?

Sorry, I didn't get a notification of these messages. Solar inverters don't have loss of mains protection per se (i.e. Vector Shift or RoCoF), but they still have Under/Over Voltage and Frequency settings. So if there is no 'Mains' then they trip out on Voltage or Frequency still. This is why we can disable the LoM from asynchronous generators like wind and solar. When solar has a G59 relay installed (generally over 50kw) then the G59 voltage and frequency settings should be stripped out of the inverters (or made wider than the G59 relay) and all controlled by the G59 relay.

Synchronous generators (AD/CHP) do need specific LoM protection as they are 'worse offenders' with how they produce their power. This is why generally we need to replace the relays on CH

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Anyone that is still needing the G59 Upgrade completing (i.e. anyone with a renewable generator and G59 relay installed before February 2018), the last official window for the grants closes on 11th August. The application is not a long and demanding process once we have the information, and we then get around 3 months to actually complete the works - basically there is still time if you haven't done it.

There are rumours there will be a window 5 with grants still available which likely run 12th August-11th November, but this has so far not been confirmed so not worth the risk. However, if you are reading this after the 11th August and still haven't completed the works, worth giving me a call to check still.

[email protected] 01751 472595

 

[Bob]

Enercon wind turbines installed after 2012 with Siemens g59 unit do not need this upgrade contrary to what some of these companies infer

Check with manufactures and Dno excactly what is needed and claim the grant for carrying out the work yourself

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Enercon wind turbines installed after 2012 with Siemens g59 unit do not need this upgrade contrary to what some of these companies infer

Check with manufactures and Dno excactly what is needed and claim the grant for carrying out the work yourself

Hi Bob

Enercon wind turbines with Siemens relays installed definitely DO need this upgrade work completing- see extract taken below from Northern Power Grid's Letter they send out (all the other DNOs work from the same info). They don't need a new relay installing, but the settings do need upgrading and relay re-proving. The Enercon Siemens relay is one of the worst offenders as far as the grid is concerned as they commonly have low RoCoF settings in them which are worse than Vector Shift.

 

[e3120]

Windows 5 & 6 grants now confirmed

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Hi All,

Windows 5 & 6 are now open. Any renewable generator that hasn't done this upgrade please get in contact for assitance. It is a mandatory thing, and currently the grants cover all the costs.

There is no advantage to wait - the advice from the DNOs is "although this confirms dates for application Windows 5 & 6, funding may be withdrawn, or reduced, at any time if the objectives of the scheme are met. Generator Owners are therefore encouraged to apply for funding and incorporate the G59/3-7 protection changes at the earliest opportunity in order improve the likelihood of their funding application being approved by NGESO."

Colin Lockwood
WindCare Ltd
[email protected]
01751 472595

 

[The Son]

Had mine done on friday, completed website info (not an easy operation), and passed all test data to DNO.

This should be an improvement for me as we have had a lot of shutdowns due to minute power outages or vector shifts.