G59 Upgrade??

akaPABLO01

Member
i can’t be bothered with this convo, I’m afraid it’s going nowhere.

whoever has the trip issue, the g99 will not help. You need to get your dno to sort his shot out. It’s not an issue on your side. You could look at a power balancer maybe.

or find out what your g59 over volt trip is set at then turn it up 1 volt. Or just be a big pussy and leave it.
 

Bob

Member
Location
Co Durham
I won’t necessarily be a voltage issue g59 will trip over or under frequency. G59 units here are password protected and can’t be altered unless witnesed by Dno
 
Location
East Mids
So someone who has not got a clue what they are doing can’t change any settings
...and thus cause their generator to continue working and potentially exporting when there is a fault on the grid. So the engineers make it safe from their end and set off to work, only to be electrocuted by Farmer Giles who has been tinkering and has continued to generate and export so the grid is live when they think it is safe.
 

akaPABLO01

Member
I’m surrounded by two fools at a poker table here.

do both of you realise you’re full of crap or do you actually believe what you’re saying? sarcasm doesn’t traverse t’interwebs with clarity.

forgive me, trying to construct a clear coherent question here. Help me out, what are you both stating here, that one of you has a password locked relay...and? And who’s this second fella peacocking over your shoulder has no clue what he’s on about, son?
 

Fraserb

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
I thought one of the main reasons for the g59 relay was to disconnect the turbine or whatever generator from the grid if the grid went off, surely Joe public shouldn't be allowed to adjust this.
 

Bob

Member
Location
Co Durham
There one person who on here who doesn’t have a clue what he’s on about AKA Pablo. Feel free to come and visit my own 2 Enercon 500 kw Turbines and see how the G59 is set up. You may learn something
 

akaPABLO01

Member
Ok, for a second time I’ll say this as clearly and as s l o w l y so it may sink in.

apart from the relay g59, is your equipment g59 regulated?
 

omnihp

Member
I see on an Advert along the bottom of this site something about a G59 relay upgrade.
https://www.omnihp.co.uk/services/accelerated-loss-of-mains-change-programme
They claim on there that a G59 relay should be upgraded to a G99 system.

I understand the need for a G59 and every renewable system connected to the grid has it but its news to me.

I have never heard of this from either my installer/service guys or my electricity supplier.
Anybody know about this?


There is a requirement for all G59 relays installed prior to 01 February 2018 to either be replaced or if the relay is capable the protection settings changed. After this work is done the relay may require a new witness test.

This below is copied directly from the Energy Networks Association (ENA) who are the organisation which represents the transmission and distribution network operators.

‘It is a requirement of the Distribution Code that all owners of generation installed prior to February 2018, and where the generation equipment is not type-tested, to comply with new setting requirements for the interface protection in accordance with EREC G59. Owners of generation have to comply with the Distribution Code and have until 31 August 2022 to comply with these modified interface protection requirements. After that date owners who have not made the change may be the subject of an enforcement programme.’

To have this work done it can cost as much as £4,500 per relay to make these modifications and then carry out to witness testing.

So especially sites with multiple generators this could be quite costly.

However applications can be made through the ‘Accelerated Loss of Mains Change Programme’ for generators to have this work done for free.

There are a limited number of companies listed on the ENAs 'Contractor Directory', we are one of those companies.

The deadline for applications is 11/08/2020 so there is a limited time to have this work done for free.

If generators miss out on this opportunity to have the work done for free they will have to have the work carried out at their own cost.

Our contact details can be found on the link posted by @fermerboy earlier to find out more and have the work carried out.
 

sjt01

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
North Norfolk
Update - the change is that G59 relays operating in vector shift mode will have to be changed to ROCOF - rate of change of frequency. I see in the case of our G59 relay that this is a software selectable option. The DNO witnessing is free of charge, and there is a grant available at present for equipment upgrade and possibly the test team and relay sealing team
 

Bob

Member
Location
Co Durham
My G59 protection system is already ROCOF, This seems to be just on smaller scale installations not connected at HV. I would make sure you get some independent advice as this sounds as if it could be free money to some of these renewable companies
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
it is certainly a good idea to register on this site as soon as possible. It is not the easiest site to navigate but make sense eventually.
You most likely will not be able to complete the registration with out technical help
 

farmerdan

New Member
Location
Leicester
Mine is a variable shift relay installed late 2015, as mentioned above, the portal isn't the best, but I have managed to register yesterday... and I did need help from the panel manufacturer to confirm the current settings.

I can't quite work out how the funding works, is it a set fee for replacing a relay, (which I think is listed as £4000) or is that the maximum paid and they just pay the actual fee invoiced by the supplier(s)?
 
Hello All,

I'm new here, and not a farmer - I work as a CHP Engineer, and as such can clarify what is going on with G59, or G99. Some of you with AD plants, solar or turbines installed prior to 2017 will have had a mains protection device that was compliant to G59/2 or earlier.

The massive blackout that happened August last year was the final straw for a lot of DNOs, who had already approved G59/3 and now G99. Before this happened though UKPN had already hinted that they wanted all G59/2 protection, or earlier upgraded to G59/3 - the main change was to get rid of Vector Shift as a loss of mains protection, and replace it with ROCOF (Rate of Change of Frequency)

This new system is a lot more forgiving of minor fluctuations in the frequency of the National Grid, and as a result, actually helps prevent major power cuts, caused by a lot of decentralised generation going off line (all of you with generation!)

There is a scheme where you can apply for funding to have these problematic protection devices replaced - some of the easily reprogrammable stuff qualifies for the £1500+VAT fee, other more involved and potentially older devices qualify for £4000.

If you contact your DNO they will help you out - it is in their interest to do so.

Any suggestion that you adjust your own protection relays is nothing short of dangerous - the relay is there to protect your equipment, but also protects anyone that is working on the HV network - if your machine does not disconnect in a fualt condition, your plant could well end up killing the team working on the other end of the cable.


There is no mockery of the original test - any modifications have to be verified by a test engineer and possibly a witness from the DNO. I have carried out hundereds of these tests, and all of them are taken very seriously, the paperwork trail is huge, and records are kept for the entire duration that the connection agreement is in place.


It's serious stuff, and needs to be done - Those of you on older FIT agreements will know just how expensive a long term outage is - this will help you stay in parallel with the mains for a lot longer.

Hope my comments help in some way.

Regards
Sean Williams
Senior Technical Engineer (CHP)
Shentongroup.
 

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