Gamma TB test

[sidjon]

So our vets are saying gamma is to blunt a tool to use in a hot spot area, we have lots of cattle with skin tB were the vets are saying that will trigger on a gamma test?

 

[GTB]

If your in a cull area you will have no choice if a new breakdown.

Another new rule is that IR's have to stay on the farm that they were found to be an IR for life even if they go clear at the next test..

All agreed by the NFU so im told.

I know of a farm where they had 10 reactors and 21 IR's out of 70 cows, next test did the blood test as well, they have now got 21 cows left...

Out of all the cattle they took all the skin tested all bar one reactors had Lesions on kill, out of the blood tested ones taken they found lesions in 1 animal...

I can't speak for the English NFU but NFU Cymru have opposed most of the recently introduced rules very robustly. The fact that APHA have introduced them anyway does not mean that the NFU has agreed to them.

 

[matthew]

I can't speak for the English NFU but NFU Cymru have opposed most of the recently introduced rules very robustly. The fact that APHA have introduced them anyway does not mean that the NFU has agreed to them.

No country can have a TB eradication policy without the co operation of the cattle industry . That includes cattle farmers and vets.

XL, on a mission to expand and keep out another large group, dropped their tender price to Defra and left many vet practices out of pocket in England by at around 30 per cent. A race to the bottom which helps no one at all. (Welsh veterinary tenders ended up budget neutral, Scotland gained. Work that one out.)

Defra have a nasty habit of 'consulting' on future measures, and relying on the NFU etc. to huff and puff - and then cave in to them. They come in salami slices, but all conspire to kill more cattle at least possible cost while offering little redress on wildlife carriers.

This is wrapped up in a blanket of blame and biosecurity, for the public's consumption, as 'cattle get killed anyway'.

On gamma ifn, a few links and veterinary comments on its effectiveness, its pilots in the UK and is specificity.

The pilot study and Court case challenges:
http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2008/04/his-masters-voice-gammaifn.html

More on efficacy and 'early detection'.:
http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/early-detection-potential-of-gammaifn.html

A vet and veterinary pathologist's views:
http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/gamma-ifn-extreme-caution-is-needed.html

And one step at a time, we end up with this:

http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/never-trust-authority-figure.html

One thing is becoming very clear.
Trust in the ministry and industry representatives responsible for this unholy mess, has never been lower.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Gamma test on everything over 42 days not just adult cattle.


One thing that some are overlooking is that when blood test is brought into an infected herd, first (major) tranche of reactors will have already gone on the first skin test so these are not gamma tested - this may include what were initially IRS but become reactors on severe interpretation. So the first SIT is then on animals that have already passed a recent skin test and inevitably there usually are fewer reactors at that point - unless there is a fresh source of infection. Wouldn't mind betting that the tranche of 25 that we lost as a result of our annual test would have been gamma reactors too - and most of them had lesions.

 

[sidjon]

Gamma test on everything over 42 days not just adult cattle.


One thing that some are overlooking is that when blood test is brought into an infected herd, first (major) tranche of reactors will have already gone on the first skin test so these are not gamma tested - this may include what were initially IRS but become reactors on severe interpretation. So the first SIT is then on animals that have already passed a recent skin test and inevitably there usually are fewer reactors at that point - unless there is a fresh source of infection. Wouldn't mind betting that the tranche of 25 that we lost as a result of our annual test would have been gamma reactors too - and most of them had lesions.

Friend a couple of years ago had 1 reactor which was a bull found at slaughter which triggered a SIT which found no more reactors, but we're told they had to have a gamma test which found 70 cows, which goes back to being too bunt a tool.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

We had 660 through the crush by midday this morning. I'm pretty sure the vets made more than i did out of today.

 

[sidjon]

I just finished first farm test, only 101 bulling heifers, cows, bulls and calves next Monday, did ours as fast as them previous farm which is 10 dexter. ... good news did pass, fingers crossed for next week and will be clear again, seem to be benefiting from being on the edge of the cull.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Our was only a part test too, unfortunately we've got to wait a fortnight before testing calves.

 

[Henarar]

I just finished first farm test, only 101 bulling heifers, cows, bulls and calves next Monday, did ours as fast as them previous farm which is 10 dexter. ... good news did pass, fingers crossed for next week and will be clear again, seem to be benefiting from being on the edge of the cull.

Hope you go OK

 

[sidjon]

Hope you go OK

Thanks, just started on blues beginning of the week, 8 so far and all born by their self , up and sucked within the hour , hopefully top sedgemoor in a couple of weeks

 

[Henarar]

Thanks, just started on blues beginning of the week, 8 so far and all born by their self , up and sucked within the hour , hopefully top sedgemoor in a couple of weeks

that's great to hear

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Thanks, just started on blues beginning of the week, 8 so far and all born by their self , up and sucked within the hour , hopefully top sedgemoor in a couple of weeks

Are you clear now or have you found a home for restricted blues?

 

[sidjon]

Are you clear now or have you found a home for restricted blues?

Hopefully clear next Thursday, cows left to do but they have had 2 clear tests , but one holding number for three farm, how did your's go? You could try buitelaar collection centre at Hatherleigh, their taking tb beef calves but know idea on price​

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Just 2, both would have passed on normal interpretation but just crossed the line on severe. I've sold all my blue heifers for £25 which is a joke but still just preferable to sending them on as zoo food. I'm keeping all the steers for the time being, I've got 14 on some cull cows and 40 odd running with my dairy heifers.

 

[sidjon]

Just 2, both would have passed on normal interpretation but just crossed the line on severe. I've sold all my blue heifers for £25 which is a joke but still just preferable to sending them on as zoo food. I'm keeping all the steers for the time being, I've got 14 on some cull cows and 40 odd running with my dairy heifers.View attachment 504494 View attachment 504496

Feck that's not great news about either, how long have you been down for? Has the cull had no effect down with you?

 

[Princess Pooper]

Just 2, both would have passed on normal interpretation but just crossed the line on severe. I've sold all my blue heifers for £25 which is a joke but still just preferable to sending them on as zoo food. I'm keeping all the steers for the time being, I've got 14 on some cull cows and 40 odd running with my dairy heifers.View attachment 504494 View attachment 504496

Can't like the post, and £25 for BB heifer calves is criminal, but love that bottom picture of your happy little suckler herd.

 

[gone up the hill]

I can't speak for the English NFU but NFU Cymru have opposed most of the recently introduced rules very robustly. The fact that APHA have introduced them anyway does not mean that the NFU has agreed to them.

This side of the border the total opposite is true!

 

[gone up the hill]

Just 2, both would have passed on normal interpretation but just crossed the line on severe. I've sold all my blue heifers for £25 which is a joke but still just preferable to sending them on as zoo food. I'm keeping all the steers for the time being, I've got 14 on some cull cows and 40 odd running with my dairy heifers.View attachment 504494 View attachment 504496

When they are old enough to wean give me a PM as I know someone who might be intrested in calves like that and they will give you a fair price even thou you are down on TB..

Getting harder to get TB to TB licences now after April 1st as you can only buy in from another TB herd if the incoming herd has to have at least two more tests to go clear.

 

[gone up the hill]

Fine, but most of those cattle still have TB. That's the part you are glossing over. You don't have lesions or culture positive even when they actually have the disease, we just need to find the TB bacteria to spoligotype etc.

You seem to think that no lesions = no TB and that's just wrong.

You are claiming that we should use a test that is 97% inaccurate as all these cattle will have TB, reality is that the vast majority of these 97% of cattle is that they don't have TB and never will get TB!

 

[Thick Farmer]

For 400 animals we would get £834.50, but (what I forgot to say) is XL Farmcare take 35p each animal for admin, so we lose £140 and bank £694.50

It's nice on organized farms to do 50 an hour but unless everything is exceptionally well set up that rarely happens. Often animals are at multiple sites so there is different set ups to contend with, down time moving equipment etc. There is 8 hours of solid work if you can keep them coming through at 50 per hour without a break to pee, drink a cup of tea or eat something. You would have a vet tied up for 2 days or even sometimes split because of staff/equipment etc

Typical hourly rates for a vet would be around £120 per hour. That is 5.8 hours of vet time and you are tying up 16+ hours where they could be doing something more profitable. Worse as we are 4 yearly testing so the facilities are generally poor and not set up like they are down in the south west where they test every 60 days.

We've spent £1000 this year training a new vet to TB test and everyone else revalidating their 'grandfather' rights.

Not to mention it's boring and often dangerous work for a highly trained professional person. I don't know of any vets who enjoy testing.

Obviously, the figures don't stack up so well on farms with a 4 year test and crap facilities.

In this area we're on annual tests and usually have to every six months due to neighbours having a breakdown of TB anyway.

It appears to me that once a farm has tb they have to test every 60 days on a severe interpretation so are very unlikely to ever go clear.

My local practice make most of their income from it and employ two or three vets who do TB testing and nothing else. This worries me as they have a vested interest in failing the farmer so that they can come back in 60 days and make some more money for the test.