Genomics

Crusty

Member
Been using genomic bulls for 5 years but don't breed for or care for type so not sure if this will help. We do use mating programs which are corrective for type and you set the parameters and we're very happy with the quality of milking animals we have now. So yes I think you'll be fine trusting the linear on a genomic proof if that's what you mean
 

Stinker

Member
A question for those of you who have been using Genomic bulls for a while. Does the daughters confirmation match the genomic proof?

I,m a bit fussy so am nervous of using genomic proven bulls.
Take a look a the proven list and then the genomic. For years now top genomic bulls have had amazing fertility and lifespan. This hasn't translated to the proven list. Sure the pli keeps going up but it's all based on production. Those bulls that did have good health traits have either lost them or have slipped down the list because of lack of production.
 

jerseycowsman

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
cornwall
A question for those of you who have been using Genomic bulls for a while. Does the daughters confirmation match the genomic proof?

I,m a bit fussy so am nervous of using genomic proven bulls.
Surely, if genomics was as good as they say, vets, foot trimmers and PLi's should be out of a job now!
 

Clay52

Member
Location
Outer Space
Take a look a the proven list and then the genomic. For years now top genomic bulls have had amazing fertility and lifespan. This hasn't translated to the proven list. Sure the pli keeps going up but it's all based on production. Those bulls that did have good health traits have either lost them or have slipped down the list because of lack of production.

Totally incorrect. Health traits have been improving massively. Genomic proofs have been correlating extremely well with proven proofs.
 

watcher72

Member
Been using genomic bulls for 5 years but don't breed for or care for type so not sure if this will help. We do use mating programs which are corrective for type and you set the parameters and we're very happy with the quality of milking animals we have now. So yes I think you'll be fine trusting the linear on a genomic proof if that's what you mean

:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:
 

Stinker

Member
Totally incorrect. Health traits have been improving massively. Genomic proofs have been correlating extremely well with proven proofs.
Where are these proven ex genomic bulls with high health traits and high pli. The top proven pli list is not full of these type of bulls. Where have they gone. The op also doesn't care about averages. He wants consistent results. He doesn't care the whole breed might be getting better on average, he wants all his heifers to be better than the previous generation.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Where are these proven ex genomic bulls with high health traits and high pli. The top proven pli list is not full of these type of bulls. Where have they gone. The op also doesn't care about averages. He wants consistent results. He doesn't care the whole breed might be getting better on average, he wants all his heifers to be better than the previous generation.
Only 4 bulls in the top 50 proven pli list are negative fertility, many above plus 10 so I don't understand your point.
 

___\0/___

Member
Location
SW Scotland
How much of a genomic bulls stats are made from the DNA test? Noticed a couple of massive moves in some bulls (still genomic not proven) PLI which must come from its parents.
 

Mr Big

Member
If you look down the proven list there are any amount of good solid bulls that in their day were impressive genomic bulls. The fact is though, genetic advances are so fast these days with genomics that some of the proven bulls maybe appear moderate in comparison to the new bulls that are coming online all the time. Traits do vary when transition from genomic to proven but on the whole they are fairly accurate and give a guide to how a bull will breed. Personally I would not go back to using too many proven bulls because I'd be slowing the herds genetic advancement in terms of health and production. In terms of type they don't need to be show winners so long as they are functional which is exactly what our genomic selections have provided so far.
 

farmerdan7618

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Big concern with genomics is the reduced diversity of bloodlines in the smaller breeds.
Genomics is great for the commercial breeder, but they need to be aware of inbreeding.
IMO bull breeding should continue to use genetic diversity to ensure inbreeding is minimal and outcross bulls are available.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Big concern with genomics is the reduced diversity of bloodlines in the smaller breeds.
Genomics is great for the commercial breeder, but they need to be aware of inbreeding.
IMO bull breeding should continue to use genetic diversity to ensure inbreeding is minimal and outcross bulls are available.
I agree it may not work with British Friesian.
 

Crusty

Member
To explain, I pick bulls on production then health traits then stick them in the mating program mainly for inbreeding but it automatically corrects for type which I don't mind and we actually need to improve udders imo as we've never bred for type and now yields are increasing udders on our older cows aren't good enough
 

Stinker

Member
Only 4 bulls in the top 50 proven pli list are negative fertility, many above plus 10 so I don't understand your point.
The point is a few years ago all the top genomic bulls on the list would of been plus 10 for fertility and 0.5 for lifeapan. This hasn't translated to the proven list. Yes there are some good bull but not many. Maybe 3 or 4 what happened to all the others.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
The point is a few years ago all the top genomic bulls on the list would of been plus 10 for fertility and 0.5 for lifeapan. This hasn't translated to the proven list. Yes there are some good bull but not many. Maybe 3 or 4 what happened to all the others.
There average will be the same don't forget in rough terms the top bulls 3 years ago were circa 500 pli the best proven bulls today are 700 pli way above predictions.
 

Stinker

Member
There average will be the same don't forget in rough terms the top bulls 3 years ago were circa 500 pli the best proven bulls today are 700 pli way above predictions.
But what is the point in averages. On average test bulls have always been better than proven but like test bulls how are you meant to know which ones will stick. Sure you can use 20 bulls and on average its probably going to work out but what about the 50 percent worse than average. The bottom 10 percent will be hardly be fit to milk. Its fine if your selling a lot but even then it's not easy to tell they a useless until they have been milking a year or 2. Like I have said before great for the breed, pointless for the individual farmer.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
But what is the point in averages. On average test bulls have always been better than proven but like test bulls how are you meant to know which ones will stick. Sure you can use 20 bulls and on average its probably going to work out but what about the 50 percent worse than average. The bottom 10 percent will be hardly be fit to milk. Its fine if your selling a lot but even then it's not easy to tell they a useless until they have been milking a year or 2. Like I have said before great for the breed, pointless for the individual farmer.
I used to think exactly the same my cows certainly aren't show cows but I'd rarely see a heifer classify fair once a year perhaps. There is nothing wrong with the bottom end and any bull can throw a dog occasionally.
 

Clay52

Member
Location
Outer Space
Where are these proven ex genomic bulls with high health traits and high pli. The top proven pli list is not full of these type of bulls. Where have they gone. The op also doesn't care about averages. He wants consistent results. He doesn't care the whole breed might be getting better on average, he wants all his heifers to be better than the previous generation.

I only really look at US proofs these days because they seem to be the most accurate by a long way. I don’t really waste my time with other country proofs anymore apart from a casual look.

Ex genomic and now proven bulls have held up very well. Health traits of the breed have moved forward massively.
 

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