George Eustice's announcement "The path to sustainable farming." 2021-2024

digger64

Member
I don’t understand people that still think Elms will replace BPS, unless in a very simplified form, ie- get paid a few pounds for low input pp, or not cutting hedges every year. The current environmental schemes and the good old HLS we once had, allow you to get paid for the option, like 6m margins or wild bird seed plots, whilst crucially still getting the BPS on top.
So say £125 acre for the option plus the £90 bps, gives £215,/ minus cost of establishing/ seed etc, maybe leaving £150 acre before rent( if your lucky)
new Elms scheme £125 acre, no bps, same costs, is £35 before rent, which will put you in a loss making scenario .
But from a landlords point of view the rent they will be aiming to achieve will be £215 minus say £80 =£135 regardless of land / income / cost / yield potential ! on your figures . (I know there's more to it than that , but that is the jist of it ).
I don't understand why the industry as a whole would wish to get into or even consider accepting this position .
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
not how I read it?
56604DE9-2B2D-4E88-BCAE-FD4EF9F09011.png
 

Johnnyboxer

Member
Location
Yorkshire
No

There is 49 pages of waffle and more waffle and just one page that will tell us what they intend to do and life is far too short to waste reading all that drivel to come across that one page!

Well, if it was my business that is going to be affected beyond current recognition then I would make damn sure I read it and understood the new rules

Sums you up
 

DRC

Member
But from a landlords point of view the rent they will be aiming to achieve will be £215 minus say £80 =£135 regardless of land / income / cost / yield potential ! on your figures . (I know there's more to it than that , but that is the jist of it ).
I don't understand why the industry as a whole would wish to get into or even consider accepting this position .
I agree. It’ll be financial suicide, because you won’t be able to grow a crop on it, unless it fits in with a much lower output way of farming.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
So they are saying you can take the payments upto 2027 in one hit then claim again?

So take the payments, then leave the sector but set up a farming company in a different name untill 2027 then claim again in your own name in 2027!
That is just the policy document, I think you will find there will be quite a lot more words in the final agreement.
 
Location
Devon
Well, if it was my business as a farmer that is going to be affected beyond recognition then I would make damn sure I read it and understood the new rules

Sums you up

Well i had a meeting today with someone very high up and knows everything about these schemes etc and he stated to me that there is no point reading all that waffle as things will change again before they are implemented and untill they set the final rules there is not much point worrying too much!

As he said: The devil is in the detail and when you finally have that then you start looking at your options!

A hell of a lot can and may well change before 2024 including perhaps a new Gov who may well rip up this Elms scheme/ % of BPS payments and start again!
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
I am working on the premise that the older partners might meet their end before the BPS payment... :unsure:
I am one of the older partners and have realised that the pensions of me and others will go a fair way to replace the demise of current payments so the question is how is that going to help in any restructuring of the industry or push us here to engage in these proposed loss making schemes, just got to keep alive and in reasonable health but if I wasnt wouldnt be my problem ( selfish old git im becoming)but then im now in a position to expand which will mean rents wont come down as some expect. plus should I and others leave this mortal coil the living costs and drawings will also reduce so basically onwards and upwards as ive no intention of going down to hell or arcadia land!!!!
 
Location
Devon
Even if rents do drop the only two groups that will gain will be the tarmac large dairy farmers and the large AD plants of which both are after as many acres to rent/ standing crops to buy as they can get!
 

Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Conditional on leaving the industry.
How is that enforcable though? Say it's a simple case of the old gaffer having a cheque, is he really going to let go of the reigns? I know mine probably won't, and it's pretty simple here. How on earth would it work with family partnerships, where one might want to go with the sub? I've a funny feeling (and I hope i'm wrong) that it's a carrot to get tenant farmers out to free up land for tree planting(read rewilding). HMG can't have much faith in the future or they wouldn't be thinking of exit payments.
 
More I read the more I think my original post is correct. Biggest cock up from government for agriculture ever...... we just have to be able to last long enough for then to realise it and change things. Food is what most farmers want to produce and they are trying it disincentive it. They are trying to increase jobs for university graduates at the expense of primary industries.
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
If it is easy to administer the mid tier options on your farm, why are you not already doing it with full BPS as well?
We only applied this year because we didn't want to jump into something if it was going to change halfway through.
I don't get this? You will be on 50% BPS. Mid tier is calculated on income forgone, and has costs attached, how will that help replace BPS unless the option rates are massively higher?
Low input pp that we have practised for 10 years or more won't cost us a penny more than it ever had and will put over 6k in my pocket.

Maybe those who don't understand don't have rent to pay?
I'm afraid I do!
 

Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
How is that enforcable though? Say it's a simple case of the old gaffer having a cheque, is he really going to let go of the reigns? I know mine probably won't, and it's pretty simple here. How on earth would it work with family partnerships, where one might want to go with the sub? I've a funny feeling (and I hope i'm wrong) that it's a carrot to get tenant farmers out to free up land for tree planting(read rewilding). HMG can't have much faith in the future or they wouldn't be thinking of exit payments.
And just to add, Why would anybody in there right mind join an industry that the goverment is paying people to leave?
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
How is that enforcable though? Say it's a simple case of the old gaffer having a cheque, is he really going to let go of the reigns? I know mine probably won't, and it's pretty simple here. How on earth would it work with family partnerships, where one might want to go with the sub? I've a funny feeling (and I hope i'm wrong) that it's a carrot to get tenant farmers out to free up land for tree planting(read rewilding). HMG can't have much faith in the future or they wouldn't be thinking of exit payments.
That’s not my problem! I’m just passing on my interpretation of what was said. They will have to work out the finer details for themselves.
I wouldn’t think it will be the preferred option for many as no doubt HMRC will want to tax it at 40% if they can.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
How is that enforcable though? Say it's a simple case of the old gaffer having a cheque, is he really going to let go of the reigns? I know mine probably won't, and it's pretty simple here. How on earth would it work with family partnerships, where one might want to go with the sub? I've a funny feeling (and I hope i'm wrong) that it's a carrot to get tenant farmers out to free up land for tree planting(read rewilding). HMG can't have much faith in the future or they wouldn't be thinking of exit payments.

Hi, an exit/retirement scheme was mooted and an option for member states under the EU CAP reforms that brought about the Single Payment Scheme introduced in 2005, and again when EU directive changed SPS to Basic Payment Scheme in 2015, so the concept is not new.

Defra has considered for several years that the business structure of Agriculture is ossified, hinders new entrants and the 'promotion' of junior partners thus slows / blocks adoption of technical change. Just in 2005 and again in 2015 Defra didn't tackle what is a difficult issue to manage with the farming community bit also with the general public, particularly as for the next 10 years the taxpayer is going to have to fund Covid. And any current student with a student loan would think 'what the hell is UK government doing paying farmers a lump sum'. I wait with great interest how Defra / Conservative Party is going to package this in light of a headline in The Daily Mail and letters to MPs from the general public.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
all change, but to what, good sounding aims and targets, all for the future, the dreaded covid will alter food procurement, the s/mkt will sort that out, but long term planning, which we need to do, nothing concrete, my biggest worry, 'less penalties, more help' cannot see any civil servant willing to lose any power ! Change of guv, before the main start, but if it does happen, sounds good, just the big if.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
And just to add, Why would anybody in there right mind join an industry that the goverment is paying people to leave?
They won’t be joining the same industry, they wouldn’t be trying to pivot from being a farmer to becoming a “land and ecology manager“. It will be a different job they enter to the one vacated.
 

Bracklandbarn

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Suffolk
How do they police that thou?

You could for example now claim in your own name, claim the one lump sum and then start up a business in another name and carry on claiming..
Or another scenario....the older generation “retires”, gets a payout and business Is transferred to son/daughter to carry on business as usual?! I agree with @Tubbylew about aiming this at tenant farmers
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Hi, an exit/retirement scheme was mooted and an option for member states under the EU CAP reforms that brought about the Single Payment Scheme introduced in 2005, and again when EU directive changed SPS to Basic Payment Scheme in 2015, so the concept is not new.

Defra has considered for several years that the business structure of Agriculture is ossified, hinders new entrants and the 'promotion' of junior partners thus slows / blocks adoption of technical change. Just in 2005 and again in 2015 Defra didn't tackle what is a difficult issue to manage with the farming community bit also with the general public, particularly as for the next 10 years the taxpayer is going to have to fund Covid. And any current student with a student loan would think 'what the hell is UK government doing paying farmers a lump sum'. I wait with great interest how Defra / Conservative Party is going to package this in light of a headline in The Daily Mail and letters to MPs from the general public.
Yes it will be tricky, a lump sum won't be enough for a tenant farmer with no assets who will lose their house if they retire. On the other hand it won't look good going to a multi millionaire slipper farmer and house grower
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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