George Monbiot "how we ended up paying farmers to flood our homes"

[Jackson4]

Dead right. Much of the flooding on the Somerset levels could also be attributed to their narrow minded views on wetland management, which they quickly distanced themselves from when the sh1t it the fan

When i was on holiday in somerset? must be over 6 years ago we dont go away much was talking to a somerset farmer who farmed the levels he was moaning about what the raising of water levels was doing..by those idiot lefty twits back then. his family had been in charge of the managing water levels till then for a century.

 

[Jackson4]

Only very recently [last ten years outside of certain favourable 'dry' areas]. Not much around here.

Much in Cumbria and those flood-hit areas? That is the current question. Much AD plants in those areas growing maize? For how long and how significant has been the soil erosion and resultant river silting?

Fact is, its not a factor in those areas and some of you lot are getting to be as bad at misinformation as Monbiot.

Round here there is no maize up here in the dales, farms are i woud say half as intensive as they were in the 80's 90's 2000 etc very few dairy herds left so fert use about disappeared, cropping and reseeding dont happen much on all these small sheep farms and stocking rates are therefore low, farmers paid to keep less sheep on the moor and alot of farmers are in the retirement age with a few sucklers and claiming sfp, all the plastic drains and improvements of the dairy push late 70's are silted up etc... yet i have never seen so much water for a long time and the farms in the bottom of the valley are submerged.. to say this is because of maize or bare fields, or intensification is PLAIN WRONG.

If there is one thing to blame which was man made it was the draining of many moors and the clearing out of upland becks and streams. Were there once was a little limestone beck were i could go watch the trout jump in the autumn there is now and massive 30ft gorge were huge bolders get washed down every year..all the limestone ponds pools and waterfalls are long gone. Climate was alot colder and drier 10 years ago mind, its definitely a period of wetter weather.

Edit: To be honest i cant blame the moor on my side as its only one rough pasture thats had no stock in for 3 months above and above that the scar at a 1000ft and my fields are saturated, cant absorb anymore water there is simply too much coming out the sky!

 

[czechmate]

I would say for myself and I think for Clive, that I am not suggesting that growing maize has any effect on flooding in a region that doesn't have any maize.
I would, however, have to say that leaving fields just harvested of maize, in the state of just being harvested untill next years maize crop is a very poor practice and one that does leave farmers open to criticism as environmental vandals (which frankly they are)

 

[Cowabunga]

I would say for myself and I think for Clive, that I am not suggesting that growing maize has any effect on flooding in a region that doesn't have any maize.
I would, however, have to say that leaving fields just harvested of maize, in the state of just being harvested untill next years maize crop is a very poor practice and one that does leave farmers open to criticism as environmental vandals (which frankly they are)

I would say that this is a complete irrelevance and distraction from the subject of this topic and the current floods.
If you wish to discuss an alliance with Mr Monbiot on that issue in arable areas, I suggest you start another topic or discuss it by Twatting George.

 

[czechmate]

Not the least interested in your suggestions

 

[Honest john]

I would say for myself and I think for Clive, that I am not suggesting that growing maize has any effect on flooding in a region that doesn't have any maize.
I would, however, have to say that leaving fields just harvested of maize, in the state of just being harvested untill next years maize crop is a very poor practice and one that does leave farmers open to criticism as environmental vandals (which frankly they are)

What would you do then on wet ground after a chopper in mid November ?

 

[czechmate]

What would you do then on wet ground after a chopper in mid November ?

I can see its a problem and I was actually thinking about it this afternoon. Here it is harvested that bit sooner and followed with cereals. Maybe it just isn't acceptable to grow it when harvest wil inevitably be so late to cause damage and no chance of any remedy?

 

[Cowabunga]

What would you do then on wet ground after a chopper in mid November ?

Remember he's based in France and that there is no maize in current flood hit areas, so that is a complete irrelevance.

If I were in that position, which I am, I wouldn't and don't grow maize. I know that I cannot and will not tolerate the risk of significant soil erosion or indeed of harvesting in wet conditions.

 

[Ley253]

I would say for myself and I think for Clive, that I am not suggesting that growing maize has any effect on flooding in a region that doesn't have any maize.
I would, however, have to say that leaving fields just harvested of maize, in the state of just being harvested untill next years maize crop is a very poor practice and one that does leave farmers open to criticism as environmental vandals (which frankly they are)

So you have never heard of winter fallow then. Years ago,fields were ploughed and left in the ploughed state all winter for jack frost and his mate winter rain,to break the furrows down to a seed bed. Those furrows had even less root structure than maize fields, and did sometimes get washed into the streams. But if that happened, the stream was dredged by the farmer and the soil returned to the field. Something that is now illegal! The Bog Police(EA) wont let farmers clear the streams, only they can do this, and the spoil has to be dumped in landfill, as its classed as "hazardous waste"
The same Bog Police are the fools that build pumping stations without flood proofing the equipment, that what has caused much of York to be flooded!

 

[czechmate]

So you have never heard of winter fallow then. Years ago,fields were ploughed and left in the ploughed state all winter for jack frost and his mate winter, rain to break the furrows down to a seed bed. Those furrows had even less root structure than maize fields, and did sometimes get washed into the streams. But if that happened, the stream was dredged by the farmer and the soil returned to the field. Something that is now illegal! The Bog Police wont let farmers clear the streams, only they can do this, and the spoil has to be dumped in landfill, as its classed as "hazardus waste"

Yes I have heard of that practice and thought it was a bad one. Even tried it a time or two in my years of growing leeks but soon gave it up as nonsense

 

[DrWazzock]

So you have never heard of winter fallow then. Years ago,fields were ploughed and left in the ploughed state all winter for jack frost and his mate winter rain,to break the furrows down to a seed bed. Those furrows had even less root structure than maize fields, and did sometimes get washed into the streams. But if that happened, the stream was dredged by the farmer and the soil returned to the field. Something that is now illegal! The Bog Police(EA) wont let farmers clear the streams, only they can do this, and the spoil has to be dumped in landfill, as its classed as "hazardous waste"
The same Bog Police are the fools that build pumping stations without flood proofing the equipment, that what has caused much of York to be flooded!

We only ever do this on very heavy land. No danger of it washing away. But now we have warm wet winters it just tends to lead to slumping so it's fallen out of favour.

 

[caveman]

Used to be ploughed high and left in clods. Not bashed down to talcum powder with a power harrow.

 

[Ley253]

Yes I have heard of that practice and thought it was a bad one. Even tried it a time or two in my years of growing leeks but soon gave it up as nonsense

On some of the land over here, without it you would never have made a seedbed, remember, no tractors then, and your harrow was a thorn bush. Those farmers worked with the land and were left to do so by a government who were by and large land owners, so had an interest, unlike today when we are told what to do by idiots like GM, who has never farmed so much as a window box.

 

[czechmate]

On some of the land over here, without it you would never have made a seedbed, remember, no tractors then, and your harrow was a thorn bush. Those farmers worked with the land and were left to do so by a government who were by and large land owners, so had an interest, unlike today when we are told what to do by idiots like GM, who has never farmed so much as a window box.

In those days the farmers didn't have the ability to cause so much damage then

 

[Cowabunga]

In those days the farmers didn't have the ability to cause so much damage then

The damage caused by two World Wars, and in GB especially the First World War and the massive deforestation that resulted, let alone the total devastation of much of Europe, should put some perspective on farmer's contribution while feeding the nation. But it doesn't. For the same reason as the history and necessity of waterway engineering and maintenance has been lost. Because memory is short and the new generation think they know more than the last, especially when sitting in an office after a cursory university 'education'.

 

[cudota]

So you have never heard of winter fallow then. Years ago,fields were ploughed and left in the ploughed state all winter for jack frost and his mate winter rain,to break the furrows down to a seed bed. Those furrows had even less root structure than maize fields, and did sometimes get washed into the streams. But if that happened, the stream was dredged by the farmer and the soil returned to the field. Something that is now illegal! The Bog Police(EA) wont let farmers clear the streams, only they can do this, and the spoil has to be dumped in landfill, as its classed as "hazardous waste"
The same Bog Police are the fools that build pumping stations without flood proofing the equipment, that what has caused much of York to be flooded!

Similar thing in Lancaster i believe brand new electric substation next to river didn't raise it high enough

 

[Ley253]

In those days the farmers didn't have the ability to cause so much damage then

The farmers are not causing the damage, the EA is, by not dredging the rivers! its noticeable that the very limited scrape they did on the levels has resulted in the reins being less than half full, even after all the rain we have had. Straightening rivers(EA again) has reduced capacity and increased flow rates, couple that to a no dredging policy and down stream areas are bound to flood. Just to make sure, the managed bogs on high ground have been left to fill, so the dampening effect they had on river filling has been lost as well

 

[Cowabunga]

Soon, the Newt, Mr Toad and the common Bat will rule the Earth and Man will be their full-time servant.

 

[cudota]

Soon, the Newt, Mr Toad and the common Bat will rule the Earth and Man will be their full-time servant.

You forgot the ring leader .......Badger

 

[Ley253]

Soon, the Newt, Mr Toad and the common Bat will rule the Earth and Man will be their full-time servant.

What do you mean by "soon"?