Getting a council farm

[Mc115reed]

Trouble is when get one ,they never moved on ,and bought as sitting tenants cheap when sold off???

Definatly not buying them cheap.. only 2 of the farms for sale have been bought they’re asking mega money for them more than market value! ... there also only selling the sh!t holes off that require significant investment all the tidier farms are staying ...

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Definatly not buying them cheap.. only 2 of the farms for sale have been bought they’re asking mega money for them more than market value! ... there also only selling the sh!t holes off that require significant investment all the tidier farms are staying ...

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to comment on that, no there not being sold off cheap, but there's definitely more than two of us buying, and definitely not the sh1t holes being sold off but the outlying farms that would never have potential,to come for building or similar.

 

[ploughman1963]

Apologies if I sound stupid.
I’m on page 6 of my business plan and loosing the will to live
Just getting on to the figures. Is it normal practise to take the cost of renting the house out of profits?
l mean say I offer to pay £10,000 for the whole place. Renting just the house would cost me £7200 in the same area for same size house, so in theory I’d need to make £2800 to start making money (I know there’s lots of other expenses but I’m trying to make my point).
Does that make sense?

I would state the rent tendered, then on a separate page give a breakdown. Unfortunately most tenancies would now expect the house to be considered separately I’m afraid - so I am told. Are you already renting a house? If you own a house, presumably you would rent it out to occupy the farmhouse?
It forms part of your outgoings so I would just include your total rent in your costings. You can highlight in your BP that the farm is uneconomic as it stands and point out the need for additional sources of income. It’s a difficult balancing act.

 

[mrs mtx]

I would state the rent tendered, then on a separate page give a breakdown. Unfortunately most tenancies would now expect the house to be considered separately I’m afraid - so I am told. Are you already renting a house? If you own a house, presumably you would rent it out to occupy the farmhouse?
It forms part of your outgoings so I would just include your total rent in your costings. You can highlight in your BP that the farm is uneconomic as it stands and point out the need for additional sources of income. It’s a difficult balancing act.

We currently rent a house on a farm so we would give that up to move.
We’ve calculated the tender we’d offer so that it includes x amount per month for the house and then x amount per acre and then added together.
I’m just starting the numbers side and not sure you can get 34 acres to pay for all of it so I’m thinking can we say our jobs would cover the house bit so that we only need to cubed the land bit with our business plan?

 

[ploughman1963]

We currently rent a house on a farm so we would give that up to move.
We’ve calculated the tender we’d offer so that it includes x amount per month for the house and then x amount per acre and then added together.
I’m just starting the numbers side and not sure you can get 34 acres to pay for all of it so I’m thinking can we say our jobs would cover the house bit so that we only need to cubed the land bit with our business plan?

Personally, I would show your total rent and your total income as part of your spreadsheets rather than trying to split out your income and the rent for the huse as contra items. In your overall description of the plan (strategy) I would point out that your current rent will contribute to the rent paid for the farm as you will be residing in the house.

 

[ploughman1963]

We currently rent a house on a farm so we would give that up to move.
We’ve calculated the tender we’d offer so that it includes x amount per month for the house and then x amount per acre and then added together.
I’m just starting the numbers side and not sure you can get 34 acres to pay for all of it so I’m thinking can we say our jobs would cover the house bit so that we only need to cubed the land bit with our business plan?

Dont forget, the figures you put in the tender are indicative. You can 'manipulate' them to tell the story you want to tell. The only people who will have to answer to them after you have the tenancy will be you. The balancing act is between making the figures look good enough that you can make a small profit but bad enough to justify the realistic rent you can afford to pay. If the rent isnt realistic you will be out in a few years and poorer. The reality is that a place that size is a stepping stone and uneconomic on its own - much larger places still need additional sources of income.
From my own position - I worked really hard to put together some pretty good forecasts to back up my business plan - looking back, they bear so little resemblance to the reality as to be unrecognisable - life happens along the way and opportunities come your way that mean what you wrote 3 years ago are now irrelevant.

 

[borderterribles]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to comment on that, no there not being sold off cheap, but there's definitely more than two of us buying, and definitely not the sh1t holes being sold off but the outlying farms that would never have potential,to come for building or similar.

Thank feck you've turned up!

 

[jimmer]

Some councils set the rent, and your job is to show how you intend to pay it and make a crust from the farm
It ought to be clearly stated whether the rent is for parts or the whole, its usually a total rather than a per acre figure
You didn't ought to need 7 pages of business plan, not in the preliminary stages
Give an overview of your vision of the business, and 3 years of projected figures, as others have said, they actually mean diddly in the future, but they need to show some sort of knowledge of how things might pan out

 

[chaffcutter]

@mrs mtx - don’t underestimate the potential of a small acreage managed well. My bro and sis in law got to 45 cows and a fair few contract fattened pigs on 21 acres before they moved on to a 70 ac place.

 

[Thick Farmer]

Dont forget, the figures you put in the tender are indicative. You can 'manipulate' them to tell the story you want to tell. The only people who will have to answer to them after you have the tenancy will be you. The balancing act is between making the figures look good enough that you can make a small profit but bad enough to justify the realistic rent you can afford to pay. If the rent isnt realistic you will be out in a few years and poorer. The reality is that a place that size is a stepping stone and uneconomic on its own - much larger places still need additional sources of income.
From my own position - I worked really hard to put together some pretty good forecasts to back up my business plan - looking back, they bear so little resemblance to the reality as to be unrecognisable - life happens along the way and opportunities come your way that mean what you wrote 3 years ago are now irrelevant.

This is true.
Tell them whatever they want to hear to get you in.

Speak to the current tenant and ask what they did - they haven’t been there that long and are probably moving on to a larger council holding - can’t see why they wouldn’t want to help.
The holding you’re looking at is a starter unit and PCC will want to see you aiming to progress your business so that you can move onto another place if one becomes available.
It’s obvious that the place won’t provide a living. However, make it clear that it would benefit the farm contracting that you do to have a decent base and that the income from both of your jobs will more than cover the rent. Money is the main driver for PCC at the moment.

 

[Still Farming]

This is true.
Tell them whatever they want to hear to get you in.

Speak to the current tenant and ask what they did - they haven’t been there that long and are probably moving on to a larger council holding - can’t see why they wouldn’t want to help.
The holding you’re looking at is a starter unit and PCC will want to see you aiming to progress your business so that you can move onto another place if one becomes available.
It’s obvious that the place won’t provide a living. However, make it clear that it would benefit the farm contracting that you do to have a decent base and that the income from both of your jobs will more than cover the rent. Money is the main driver for PCC at the moment.

Go round and see the Councillors on the small holding committee too possibly???

 

[Flat 10]

Go round and see the Councillors on the small holding committee too possibly???

I wouldn’t. Might prejudice your application?

 

[mrs mtx]

I wouldn’t. Might prejudice your application?

That was my concern, even about contacting the current tenants. The application clearly states that your application will be withdrawn if you are seen to be getting extra information (or something to that wording)

 

[mrs mtx]

This is true.
Tell them whatever they want to hear to get you in.

Speak to the current tenant and ask what they did - they haven’t been there that long and are probably moving on to a larger council holding - can’t see why they wouldn’t want to help.
The holding you’re looking at is a starter unit and PCC will want to see you aiming to progress your business so that you can move onto another place if one becomes available.
It’s obvious that the place won’t provide a living. However, make it clear that it would benefit the farm contracting that you do to have a decent base and that the income from both of your jobs will more than cover the rent. Money is the main driver for PCC at the moment.

Thank you, I’ve added how the contracting will benefit the farm by having the tools etc to maintain land but I’ll highlight more about how our incomes will help

 

[bobk]

Round here 90% of new entrants disappear after 12 months , plus you get kicked out at 65 .

I would seriously look at france for a tenancy , probably won't be cheaper but better farms and better prospects .

@czechmate may be looking for a good tenant

 

[som farmer]

slightly off thread, but I have had cashflows, described as 'the main road to london', minor detours are acceptable. longer ones getting iffy, big ones cause serious problems. That was from an old bank manager !

 

[Still Farming]

That was my concern, even about contacting the current tenants. The application clearly states that your application will be withdrawn if you are seen to be getting extra information (or something to that wording)

They all chased the Councillors when they wanted small holdings in these parts years ago?
May be old fashioned these days???

 

[nick...]

Must be differant down your part of the world.ridiculous rents are offered in East Anglia,well in excess of £200 an acre.i know of couple people who have tried to get farms and they have both failed.people who have got farms allegedly rent a lot of land to larger farmers who sit on the committee choosing applicants.the alleged corruption sickens me and the two I know who tried for the farms are real grafters and really deserved it.there is a lot I coukd put up about it but won’t,and as for leaving property at 65, this is a joke as someone locally is well into their 70s and still farming the land and living in the house.i wish you good luck with your application @mrs mtx
Nick...

 

[little_p]

Must be differant down your part of the world.ridiculous rents are offered in East Anglia,well in excess of £200 an acre.i know of couple people who have tried to get farms and they have both failed.people who have got farms allegedly rent a lot of land to larger farmers who sit on the committee choosing applicants.the alleged corruption sickens me and the two I know who tried for the farms are real grafters and really deserved it.there is a lot I coukd put up about it but won’t,and as for leaving property at 65, this is a joke as someone locally is well into their 70s and still farming the land and living in the house.i wish you good luck with your application @mrs mtx
Nick...

You're saying that the council farms that you know about were let to people who already have farms, but then (sub)let them out to larger farmers (who are the same people of the selection committee)?

 

[Flat 10]

Must be differant down your part of the world.ridiculous rents are offered in East Anglia,well in excess of £200 an acre.i know of couple people who have tried to get farms and they have both failed.people who have got farms allegedly rent a lot of land to larger farmers who sit on the committee choosing applicants.the alleged corruption sickens me and the two I know who tried for the farms are real grafters and really deserved it.there is a lot I coukd put up about it but won’t,and as for leaving property at 65, this is a joke as someone locally is well into their 70s and still farming the land and living in the house.i wish you good luck with your application @mrs mtx
Nick...

It’s not all that bad @Nick