Getting sucklers back in calf. Weakening Dam-calf bond

[Jimfandango]

Before the bull goes back in I have always taken the calves away from their mothers and moved to twice a day suckling for a few weeks to aid bulling. Due to an awkward piece of concreting we are doing this week (in the entrance to the shed) it will be much more difficult to bring them in twice a day.
I am thinking that I might have to leave the calves out and just turn the bull in. How much effect do the assembled brains think this will affect conception? I would like toare maintain a tight pattern if possible. It is possible to still bring them in but it goes through sheds and storage places, it would make a 30 minute job into a 1hr job.
The calves are approximately 8 weeks old.
Cheers

 

[Fat Lamb]

Doing what you do sounds like job creation to me. I would have thought taking 8 week old calves of their mothers would stress everybody out big time and thus affect conception rates anyway.

 

[Highland Mule]

+1. Have never heard of anyone doing this before, is it common practice and what is the theory behind it?

 

[Oliveau]

Just turn the bull out with the cows. Having calves at foor shouldn't affect conception rates. I used to run the bull with the cows all the time, both with sucklers and with a dairy herd. Does wonders for calving index in a dairy herd!

 

[case44]

Not worth the effort.I have never heard of this and would not separate my cows and calves.

 

[Jimfandango]

In theory it should encourage earlier cycling. I have done it many times. It definitely doesn't have any adverse effects. Always got the cows back in calf nice an quick. It has never been a big hassle as the fields are nice and accessible anyway. The regular handling always made for easy monitoring of bulling and service. Once they were served the calves went back out.

 

[Sharpy]

Never heard of this, now I've heard of it I think why would you bother? Surely the stress of separation will check the calves and disrupt the cycle of the cows?

 

[M-J-G]

I know some who do it but I wouldn't be able to do it even if I wanted to as its too time consuming, anyone I know who's giving restricted access to calves is doing so to save bedding in winter accommodation.

Run the bull with the cows and cull that ones that don't go in calf, this will do more for long-term fertility than anything else will.

 

[topground]

My heifers and cows with calves at foot get a copper bolus a month before I start AI using Kamars and observation for heat detection. Those I see bulling might be turned in with one of the bulls or AId depending on what breeding I need. The first cycle for all cows and heifers completed within 20 days. A small number of returns, bulls turned in after 6 weeks for three weeks. Calving could be over and done with in 6 weeks next March April.

 

[steveR]

+1. Have never heard of anyone doing this before, is it common practice and what is the theory behind it?

+2 and counting.

Sounds bizarre to me, but maybe because I have never heard of it... I read the OP and assumed he was going to talk about 6-7month old calves.

My experience is that the Bull will quietly get on with his work...

 

[Fendt65]

Really!!!!!!!!!

 

[willie waver]

topground taking his cows and calves to football is the second weirdest thing on this thread....

 

[Jonp]

My cows calved in first three weeks of May. Bull turned out 16th July. Stays in for six weeks. Usually have all in calf. Small herd so hardest job is opening the gate for Mr man.

 

[topground]

topground taking his cows and calves to football is the second weirdest thing on this thread....

Brilliant, made me laugh! You missed the copper bonus. Feckin auto correct. Now resolved which might be a disappointment to those not keeping up!

 

[nails]

Before the bull goes back in I have always taken the calves away from their mothers and moved to twice a day suckling for a few weeks to aid bulling. Due to an awkward piece of concreting we are doing this week (in the entrance to the shed) it will be much more difficult to bring them in twice a day.
I am thinking that I might have to leave the calves out and just turn the bull in. How much effect do the assembled brains think this will affect conception? I would like toare maintain a tight pattern if possible. It is possible to still bring them in but it goes through sheds and storage places, it would make a 30 minute job into a 1hr job.
The calves are approximately 8 weeks old.
Cheers

I have never heard of such a thing. I run bulls out all the time and most get in calf in a reasonably tight group. Any Spring stragglers move to Autumn and vice versa. Sounds a hell of a faff to me but each to their own

 

[Sir loin]

I think the theory behind it is milk build up in cow with calf not drinking changes hormone balance tricking the cow to bring on heats. As said above lot of work for little gain.

 

[Limcrazy]

Life's too short to be splitting off calves everyday. Maybe if housed and only a matter of closing a creep gate behind them.

 

[Old Tup]

Good research done many years ago by Teagasc into this subject in Ireland…
Not the extent that you describe though…some of it was for Autumn calvers being bulled indoors.
Creating a separate calf lying area adjacent to the main shed…improved the rate that cows returned to Oestrus.
Turning Spring calvers out a month or more before introducing the bull has much the same effect.
The cow becomes used to the calf being absent from her side on a continuous basis… this in turn stimulates the cows system to begin thinking about returning to Oestrus.
Really though Cows turned out as soon as possible….Bull introduced 3 Months after start of calving….Bull removed after 9 weeks…
As long as the cows are not going through difficult calvings etc….this will produce the tight calving pattern you are after…
Works well with keeping your own replacements….make sure replacements are only kept from the early calvers….bull them at 14 months …only leave bull in for 6 weeks with the heifers.
As a parallel…..think about humans……
(Not the 14 month bit)

 

[Dookist]

Not worth the effort.I have never heard of this and would not separate my cows and calves.

Sounds wicked... Dx

 

[puppet]

Before the bull goes back in I have always taken the calves away from their mothers and moved to twice a day suckling for a few weeks to aid bulling. I am thinking that I might have to leave the calves out and just turn the bull in. How much effect do the assembled brains think this will affect conception? I would like toare maintain a tight pattern if possible. It is possible to still bring them in but it would make a 30 minute job into a 1hr job.
The calves are approximately 8 weeks old.

It certainly won't make a difference and you can happily let your concrete set.
If your cows are fit then they will come into heat within 3 months of calving.
Surely it does not help calf growth to have them and mothers roaring every day and just get a gutful of milk twice a day.
Let nature have it's own way. Bull out, cows and calves happy, 5 minutes to check them each day and enjoy your new-found freedom