Give me the child and I'll give you the man

[Walterp]

The Jesuits knew that you have to get your indoctrination in early.

One of the most interesting aspects of farming fora is the insight into other people's upbringings; opinions are conveyed, and attitudes formed, by the time we are 14. The sad reality is that farmers bequeath their opinions and attitudes quicker, and often more enthusiastically, than they bequeath their farms.

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites, and farmers are the salt of the Earth upon whom everyone depends.

But the world has moved on - a modern democracy has rather different priorities than those fondly imagined by my grandfather. Social welfare is important, and an effective bureaucracy is essential, in small and crowded countries.

Farmers are one of the least important segments of modern society; a mere tick on the body politic. Year after year, their influence wanes inexorably: the nurse is a heroine, the farmer a nuisance.

English DEFRA Ministers no longer even pretend that domestic food production is useful, which ought to suggest to farmers that continuing to hallow their grandfathers' beliefs and allegiances is purposeless.

But the voices in their head tell them otherwise.

I wonder who is right?

 

[Wellytrack]

What’s your point?

 

[Deerefarmer]

The Jesuits knew that you have to get your indoctrination in early.

One of the most interesting aspects of farming fora is the insight into other people's upbringings; opinions are conveyed, and attitudes formed, by the time we are 14. The sad reality is that farmers bequeath their opinions and attitudes quicker, and often more enthusiastically, than they bequeath their farms.

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites, and farmers are the salt of the Earth upon whom everyone depends.

But the world has moved on - a modern democracy has rather different priorities than those fondly imagined by my grandfather. Social welfare is important, and an effective bureaucracy is essential, in small and crowded countries.

Farmers are one of the least important segments of modern society; a mere tick on the body politic. Year after year, their influence wanes inexorably: the nurse is a heroine, the farmer a nuisance.

English DEFRA Ministers no longer even pretend that domestic food production is useful, which ought to suggest to farmers that continuing to hallow their grandfathers' beliefs and allegiances is purposeless.

But the voices in their head tell them otherwise.

I wonder who is right?

I can't not reply to this.
So the farmers you speak of are out dated in their thinking? Because why ? Just because they don't operate and think and do as the mindless masses? The value of honesty, integrity is out of date? I would like to think that those values are more commonly found in the ag community. You speak of out dated beliefs, give an example. But the world has moved on, that's right, who said it was moving on in the right direction?? What does modern democracy prioritize?? Sweat equity? Not hardly. So social welfare is important ,,,, whose taxes make that happen? Immigrants?? Since we all know that social welfares life blood is money.
Beaurecrats ARE parasites, how can any country have an essential effective bureaucracy as long as it's ran by such?? Immigrants unwelcome? That's right ,if you immigrate for a free lunch, cause trouble ,are just plain lazy , rape and kill and steal , but should be welcome?? Seriously?
You have the gall to say farmers are the least important segment of society? Maybe in Joe publics eye they are,but is that the farmers fault?? Is it their problem that the masses care nothing about anything other than satisfying their own selfish desires? The farmer is a tick to the masses, what solution do you propose, join the majority? I understand what you're saying, what I'm asking is what needs to change in your opinion ,ie what should the farmers you speak of do about that?
I realize I'm from a different country with different laws and leadership , and maybe I am coming across a bit off key here, yet agriculture is somewhat of a universal language I think.
Your politicians don't think domestic products are useful, is that the farmers fault? Yes if they bend over and go with the flow as you suggest, after all the people get the leaders they deserve as someone else has already mentioned.
Do you not consider a politician who thinks his own countries goods are unnecessary a parasite?
One doesn't have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to look around and think for a moment, the value and contribution that agriculture brings to the economic table of any country ,with the proper management ,from both leaders and farmers, the trickle down effects can be huge,and sadly hugely overlooked. Unfortunately we are back to bureaucrats again. But it's the farmers fault / problem

 

[FonterraFarmer]

The Jesuits knew that you have to get your indoctrination in early.

One of the most interesting aspects of farming fora is the insight into other people's upbringings; opinions are conveyed, and attitudes formed, by the time we are 14. The sad reality is that farmers bequeath their opinions and attitudes quicker, and often more enthusiastically, than they bequeath their farms.

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites, and farmers are the salt of the Earth upon whom everyone depends.

But the world has moved on - a modern democracy has rather different priorities than those fondly imagined by my grandfather. Social welfare is important, and an effective bureaucracy is essential, in small and crowded countries.

Farmers are one of the least important segments of modern society; a mere tick on the body politic. Year after year, their influence wanes inexorably: the nurse is a heroine, the farmer a nuisance.

English DEFRA Ministers no longer even pretend that domestic food production is useful, which ought to suggest to farmers that continuing to hallow their grandfathers' beliefs and allegiances is purposeless.

But the voices in their head tell them otherwise.

I wonder who is right?

The UK is about 40 years behind us and probably 70 year behind Grandad. Stewart is right , the best thing you can do is get a one way ticket /Airbus out of Heathrow !!!

 

[FonterraFarmer]

What’s your point?

Is there one?

 

[Werzle]

Grandad new what he was talking about by the looks. Politicians ARE parasites, change there views like the wind to stay in a job rather than stick to there values. They never put country first either, they would rather score a few points for the party. The country would be in a better place morally and financially if it was run by hardworking, straight talking, common sense salt of the earth types.

 

[turbo]

The UK is about 40 years behind us and probably 70 year behind Grandad. Stewart is right , the best thing you can do is get a one way ticket /Airbus out of Heathrow !!!

Your welcome to him!

 

[brigadoon]

The Jesuits knew that you have to get your indoctrination in early.

One of the most interesting aspects of farming fora is the insight into other people's upbringings; opinions are conveyed, and attitudes formed, by the time we are 14. The sad reality is that farmers bequeath their opinions and attitudes quicker, and often more enthusiastically, than they bequeath their farms.

And in what way does that make them different to any other parents on the planet? It is perfectly true to say that every one of us is, in part at least, a product of their ennvironment. Some of the posters on here have wide ranging experience - some do not - so what?

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites, and farmers are the salt of the Earth upon whom everyone depends

.

And you will hear similar, but not identical perceptions in any peer group which you care to name. All of the above statements are , taken in context, at least partially correct.

But the world has moved on - a modern democracy has rather different priorities than those fondly imagined by my grandfather. Social welfare is important, and an effective bureaucracy is essential, in small and crowded countries.

My grandfather (almost certainly in common with yours) did the best he could to support his family with the resources available to him, which largely consisted of his wits and labour, if his family were warm, dry, fed and clothed he was in general content. As a grandfather today my priorities are no different. I do not feel I have been greatly aided in these matters by central bureaucracy, somewhat hindered in fact, however in days gone past I have had occasion to be grateful for the safety net available.

Farmers are one of the least important segments of modern society; a mere tick on the body politic. Year after year, their influence wanes inexorably: the nurse is a heroine, the farmer a nuisance.

English DEFRA Ministers no longer even pretend that domestic food production is useful, which ought to suggest to farmers that continuing to hallow their grandfathers' beliefs and allegiances is purposeless.

Farmers are one of the most important segments of society on earth - modern or otherwise and always will be. Modern logistics have facilitated the production of foodstuffs remote from the point of consumption, no more no less. Your statement has some validity in a UK context.

The nurse is a heroine because that is the way she is portrayed - I have had reason to use our NHS in the recent past and hero/heroine was not and is not a word that springs to mind.

But the voices in their head tell them otherwise.

I wonder who is right?

If supporting your family, and running an efficient business in an honest and decent manner is purposeless then we really have lost the plot.

I recall many years ago watching a TV report on an experiment conducted on a group of rats which were allowed to live and breed unchecked while being provided with a fixed (absolute) quantity of food each day. It did not end well.

 

[ajcc]

Walter carrys a big chip on his shoulder about family.....you have got to have some sympathy for his brother who probably had to grow up listening to Walt’s pontification morning noon and night!!

 

[DrWazzock]

I moved away and worked in engineering for a decade. I found the same sort of opinions and values in engineering circles as I did in farming. Maybe it's because engineers and farmers work in more practical ways and the outcome of their work speaks for itself, cannot be glossed over or excused with waffle and hifallutin academic arguments.

The problem with many non practical professions and so called services is they so are so far up their own ivory towers that they have lost touch with real values and an understanding of what it really takes to generate wealth and produce something useful.

Long live farming attitudes.

 

[endeavour]

WP Sorry to hear that your grandfather appears to you to have been a racist blinkered luddite with alevel of hubris or have I misunderstood your post and its conclusion.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Your welcome to him!

Mate, do ya think that Walt would be able to hack it down here?
Or the guilt of realising he's been wrong.....
Walter does put up some good debates , but the reply from one in gumboots and shite is almost certainly more worthy than for one in a suit and tie.

 

[Dry Rot]

Walterp is a fake and a troll.

Not only does he use full stops and commas but also semicolons. No solicitor worth his salt uses punctuation.

 

[Hilly]

Walter carrys a big chip on his shoulder about family.....you have got to have some sympathy for his brother who probably had to grow up listening to Walt’s pontification morning noon and night!!

The things he has posted on the www about his brother and father speak volumes about wp.

 

[Hilly]

Walterp is a fake and a troll.

Not only does he use full stops and commas but also semicolons. No solicitor worth his salt uses punctuation.

Things he has said about immediate family on the www hes not worth pissing on never mind worth his salt.

 

[turbo]

Mate, do ya think that Walt would be able to hack it down here?
Or the guilt of realising he's been wrong.....
Walter does put up some good debates , but the reply from one in gumboots and shite is almost certainly more worthy than for one in a suit and tie.

He’s never wrong according to him and would struggle to get the chips on his shoulders on a plane anyway

 

[roscoe erf]

I find this helps with the voices

 

[JP1]

The Jesuits knew that you have to get your indoctrination in early.

One of the most interesting aspects of farming fora is the insight into other people's upbringings; opinions are conveyed, and attitudes formed, by the time we are 14. The sad reality is that farmers bequeath their opinions and attitudes quicker, and often more enthusiastically, than they bequeath their farms.

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites, and farmers are the salt of the Earth upon whom everyone depends.

But the world has moved on - a modern democracy has rather different priorities than those fondly imagined by my grandfather. Social welfare is important, and an effective bureaucracy is essential, in small and crowded countries.

Farmers are one of the least important segments of modern society; a mere tick on the body politic. Year after year, their influence wanes inexorably: the nurse is a heroine, the farmer a nuisance.

English DEFRA Ministers no longer even pretend that domestic food production is useful, which ought to suggest to farmers that continuing to hallow their grandfathers' beliefs and allegiances is purposeless.

But the voices in their head tell them otherwise.

I wonder who is right?

My opinions rounded and evolved as I travelled. You missed that point (i.e. time off the farm and away is essential)

My values are as much founded by my Grandparents as my parents (they were not the same in that - in the nicest possible way - my parents looked after their own first and foremost and unlike my 4 Grandparents who I adored, lived all their adult lives in the same market town and I was lucky enough to have around me until I was 32).

When I travel about in East Anglia and elsewhere, I still see the virtues of farming and farmers and their place in the community and the village. It's more strained due to economics, incomers and income pressure but it's still there and long after many who just buy a house and commute / 2nd home in the same villages.

You make a point but I'd say there is less "indoctrination" these days as the World and alternative opinions abound because of the internet and much wider media availability. If anything I see many Fathers / parents in their Fifties making changes that their children have suggested / that they feel they should for their children's futures.

My conclusion to your post would be to pose the question back; for a thriving countryside and rural economy are you best leaving the farms, farming and countryside to the farmers that are there or get it managed by a centralised Corbyn-esque utopia? I think I'd still prefer the former; foibles and all

 

[icanshootwell]

What’s your point?

He hate,s what he has become.

 

[Goweresque]

Read TFF any day of the week and you can see beliefs, values, and perceptions that are at least a century out of date; it's like listening to my grandfather - immigrants are unwelcome, welfare claimants are 'scroungers', bureaucrats are parasites,

Those sort of views are very prevalent throughout society - not only in the UK, but pretty universally throughout the Western world. Its the main reason why Brexit happened, Trump got elected, the current Italian and Hungarian governments were elected, Austria has the right wing Freedom Party in its governing coalition, Marine Le Pen was in the last round of the French Presidential election and why Gert Wilders is the head of the second largest party in Holland.

Currently there is a fundamental divergence of the opinion in Europe between the ruling classes and the ruled. And when the ruled manage to overrule the ruling classes via the ballot box they see the sort of antidemocratic behaviour that Brexit has produced, which will only exacerbate the problem. If the masses discover that voting for change is ignored or stymied by those doing the ruling, then they may forget about voting, and take more direct measures to ensure their wishes are fulfilled.