Giving too much away

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
These companies are suddenly pushing this type of product for a reason. They've worked out how valuable your data is. Nice for them if you can pay them to relieve you of it.

Just deciding between Farmplan and Xero for accounts at the moment. Have people with strong opinions on either side. One thing that I really object to was the data grab by Gatekeeper and for that reason I'm steering away from Farmplan.
Wait for abit. The current farm plan is out dated and due an update, but there is going to be much better options really quite soon.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I have a good friend who works for consultancy firm and he uses Farmplan and likes the farm-specific functionality that's built into it. Someone on here said you can do that with Xero if you set up the cost categories intelligently. I think I know what you think.

Accounts are accounts - farm specific is a myth

You can set up xero (or any accounts package I image) to do anything farmplan can and a LOT more

Seriously can’t belive anyone would buy it - it’s absokuteky ancient, I’m amazed it even runs on a windows 10 pc ! I think it’s DOS based !

if a fbm licence if transferable (it should be ) you can have ours if you like !
 
I have used both xero and farmplan..

You can have my farmplan licence too!

Yes farmplan is really farm focussed and you can get all manner of farm focussed data- such as margins/ ha/ltr/kg , you can really drill down on data.

It is a very capable bit of software... father used it from 1979 i think with a huge dot matrix printer and a bbc computer - (i think also the first apple computer too)

But it is dreadfully dated. Very few- if any accountants understand it, and the cost of support is (was) too high for what you got.

Ive been using xero for 3 years now - even converted my accountants practice to it- its connectivity and slick data entry/ reconcilliation makes working on the accounts a doddle..yes its all cloud based so all your data is out there for hackers to look at and harvest.. but really ? Is your data that interesting?.. i know mine isnt!

I have yet to explore all the nooks and crannies of xero but data is data and drilling down to margins isn't that difficult even for me and i failed maths o level twice and flunked my CSE too.

A big motivator for cloud based stuff is that accountants/ bank managers/ other directrors/ partners/ consultants can look at data or reports and keep costs down. Now that's got to be worth something!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I have used both xero and farmplan..

You can have my farmplan licence too!

Yes farmplan is really farm focussed and you can get all manner of farm focussed data- such as margins/ ha/ltr/kg , you can really drill down on data.

It is a very capable bit of software... father used it from 1979 i think with a huge dot matrix printer and a bbc computer - (i think also the first apple computer too)

But it is dreadfully dated. Very few- if any accountants understand it, and the cost of support is (was) too high for what you got.

Ive been using xero for 3 years now - even converted my accountants practice to it- its connectivity and slick data entry/ reconcilliation makes working on the accounts a doddle..yes its all cloud based so all your data is out there for hackers to look at and harvest.. but really ? Is your data that interesting?.. i know mine isnt!

I have yet to explore all the nooks and crannies of xero but data is data and drilling down to margins isn't that difficult even for me and i failed maths o level twice and flunked my CSE too.

A big motivator for cloud based stuff is that accountants/ bank managers/ other directrors/ partners/ consultants can look at data or reports and keep costs down. Now that's got to be worth something!

You can set up xero to report crop and enterprise margins if you like - it does loads more than FMP ever could


I wouldn’t worry about the cloud - no one can see or use your data without permission and cloud severs are probabaly far more secure from hackers than your own pc
 

chickens and wheat

Member
Mixed Farmer
xero is being buggy this morning, but atleast they fix the problem at their end, no need to call up someone and try explaining the issues over the phone

Users are unable to access Xero
Update - We’re currently experiencing an interruption to service for a portion of our normal traffic. We’re sorry this is causing you downtime, and thank you for our support while we fix this for you.
Sep 12, 18:54 NZST
Update - We’re closer to getting you back on Xero, sorry for the disruption this is causing you.
Sep 12, 18:31 NZST
Update - We're currently working to get everyone back up and running. Thanks for your continued patience.
Sep 12, 18:04 NZST
Identified - Our Product Team have identified the cause, and are working to restore your access to Xero as soon as possible.
Sep 12, 17:53 NZST
Update - Our Product Team are doing everything they can to get you back online with Xero. Thanks for your patience.
Sep 12, 17:43 NZST
Update - Just to let you know that we’re still working on this - we’ll update you as soon as we have more information.
Sep 12, 17:33 NZST
Update - We’re currently aware of an issue preventing access to Xero. Our Product Team is investigating this with urgency.

Apologies for the inconvenience this is causing you - we’ll update you as soon as we have any news.
Sep 12, 17:23 NZST
Investigating - We are currently investigating this issue.
Sep 12, 17:21 NZST
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
xero is being buggy this morning, but atleast they fix the problem at their end, no need to call up someone and try explaining the issues over the phone

Users are unable to access Xero
Update - We’re currently experiencing an interruption to service for a portion of our normal traffic. We’re sorry this is causing you downtime, and thank you for our support while we fix this for you.
Sep 12, 18:54 NZST
Update - We’re closer to getting you back on Xero, sorry for the disruption this is causing you.
Sep 12, 18:31 NZST
Update - We're currently working to get everyone back up and running. Thanks for your continued patience.
Sep 12, 18:04 NZST
Identified - Our Product Team have identified the cause, and are working to restore your access to Xero as soon as possible.
Sep 12, 17:53 NZST
Update - Our Product Team are doing everything they can to get you back online with Xero. Thanks for your patience.
Sep 12, 17:43 NZST
Update - Just to let you know that we’re still working on this - we’ll update you as soon as we have more information.
Sep 12, 17:33 NZST
Update - We’re currently aware of an issue preventing access to Xero. Our Product Team is investigating this with urgency.

Apologies for the inconvenience this is causing you - we’ll update you as soon as we have any news.
Sep 12, 17:23 NZST
Investigating - We are currently investigating this issue.
Sep 12, 17:21 NZST

I use it daily for 5 separate business over the last 5 years and it’s a rare thing to have an issue - can happen occasionally though along with the occasional bank feed glitch
 

OAL

Member
Location
Hampshire
So what do people actually think of companies making money from Farmers collective data, and selling it to government? Or would you prefer to cut out the middle man and say provide the data direct to 'Defra' to use purely for statistical purposes? You know Defra pay shed load of tax payers money to acquire this data independently - paying private companies to do this when the data could be accessible via accounts packages 'on line' if farmers gave their consent. Would you consider allowing consent to the data under strict data protection and use by Defra? Or giving consent for some recompense?
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
[stir, stir]

... How about we have it all under Red Tractor?

[tongue firmly in cheek emoji]

Back to earth, though, isn't defra undertaking benchmarking using blind and double blind data collection from farms already? (Edit: I see you've already said that above, OAL)

A secure collection of data from a much broader sample would give useful results and indicators as to how to adapt and improve. It would have to be a free service, and information gleaned would have to be understandable to numpties like me.
 

OAL

Member
Location
Hampshire
[stir, stir]

... How about we have it all under Red Tractor?

[tongue firmly in cheek emoji]

Back to earth, though, isn't Defra undertaking benchmarking using blind and double blind data collection from farms already?
As I understand it, looking to go with Xero myself and was researching farmplan and others and discussing with a friend when they mentioned they provided their data, but to a private firm who just download their data from their software package, give the data to Defra and charge for the service.. So was thinking why wouldn't Defra just go direct to the software companies and get consent from the farmer?
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
The software companies would rip DEFRA off.

Edit: It wouldn't be the first time the private sector has made serious money out of a government department's procurement policies...
 
Last edited:

OAL

Member
Location
Hampshire
but then the sellers will also be guessing and just trading their back yard so to speak.
knowledge is power if you know how to use it, that goes from a growers prospective, traders and buyers.

If it wasn't for collated information you wouldn't get to know about how bad to Ozzy situation is or how good the US may be, so merrily sitting thinking everything is rosey until some huge boats come in and collapse a domestic market (hypothetically).

Without collated data the Russians could perform another great grain robbery, etc etc etc

C B
Totally agree - Using collective data to understand the market. The reason there's money in data is because it allows us collectively to improve the market... to be informed to make smarter decisions....
 

OAL

Member
Location
Hampshire
[stir, stir]

... How about we have it all under Red Tractor?

[tongue firmly in cheek emoji]

Back to earth, though, isn't defra undertaking benchmarking using blind and double blind data collection from farms already? (Edit: I see you've already said that above, OAL)

A secure collection of data from a much broader sample would give useful results and indicators as to how to adapt and improve. It would have to be a free service, and information gleaned would have to be understandable to numpties like me.
Always considering how government spend 'our tax money' that's why I thought now that technology allows such data extraction, why wouldn't Defra just get the data direct from the software people 'gaining consent from the Farmer' opposed to using a company to collect the data direct from the farmer. Thinking about it, my friend wouldn't even need to spend half a day with the company going through their account, if Defra could just extract the data online. Think the other countries do it this way - less burden on us filling in survey after survey
 

OAL

Member
Location
Hampshire
even the NFU share data about farmers / members with 3rd parties I believe .....................
Seems they do - says on their website
'We may also share your information with third party organisations who help us to research and analyse our product and service offerings, so that we can continue to provide you with the best possible service. You may opt out of this by contacting us using the details provided at the end of this Policy'

So if a your accounts package provider offered the option of giving your consent so Defra could use your financial info so they could make more informed policy decision, would you give consent? I'm coming round to the idea that I'd rather they have it than a private company that charge Defra for it...
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Seems they do - says on their website
'We may also share your information with third party organisations who help us to research and analyse our product and service offerings, so that we can continue to provide you with the best possible service. You may opt out of this by contacting us using the details provided at the end of this Policy'

So if a your accounts package provider offered the option of giving your consent so Defra could use your financial info so they could make more informed policy decision, would you give consent? I'm coming round to the idea that I'd rather they have it than a private company that charge Defra for it...



pretty poor show when if we can't even trust those that are supposed to be on our side ...................... and before anyone asks TFF sells no data !
 

farmerfred86

Member
BASIS
Location
Suffolk
Sounds like data could be “public goods” then?

Farmplan are missing a trick here. Despite what some (Clive) says they have huge market share because they have a very solid product albeit dated. They are solving this by developing and launching a new product which will no doubt be very competitive and compatable.
What they should really do to set themselves apart is protect and honour our data. That would be a sensible USP!

What will really Feck me off is when they tell me I’ll have to pay to buy the new product despite being a loyal user after all these years!
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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