Glorified Park Keepers

[Walterp]

The INCO Mond nickel refinery in the Swansea Valley has an estate farm around it, and back in the day it employed a bailiff to farm it.

The bailiff was a conscientious farmer, but hardly ever a happy one - back then INCO was the world's biggest nickel producer (since bought for $19 billion by Brazil's Vale) and its farm served both as a 'green screen' to the works and as attractive surroundings for the works social club and golf course. And everyone appreciates nice surroundings, right?

Except the bailiff - instead, he measured his success by the farm's P&L. So the various "do's and don't's" drove him crazy. Mostly "don't's", of course - don't spread muck when they're playing golf (most of the time), don't shout at employees taking a shortcut over the fields (most of the time), don't out-winter cattle ('winter' being 6 months of the year, in the Swansea Valley), etc.

You get the idea - the farm bailiff measured his success against the farm's P&L, whilst the farm's owner measured success by how agreeable the bailiff made the farm - and himself - appear.

I can see the poor chap now, in my mind's eye, declaring "one day, young Walterp, you'll all be bloody glorified park keepers like me..."

Was the bailiff's prophesy right?

 

[Goweresque]

Yup, if you want the public's £££. Don't want to be a park keeper, tell them where to stick their money.......

 

[Pan mixer]

Yup, if you want the public's £££. Don't want to be a park keeper, tell them where to stick their money.......

Probably a more reliable source of income - not really weather dependent unless you are selling ice creams too.

 

[DrWazzock]

We have a choice. Take the money and be a scruffy park keeper.

Or do without it and keep a large neat garden.

I was only discussing this with my foot trimmer this afternoon. All sorts of problems now with ticks on cattle from uncontrolled gorse scrub on higher level stewardship land and grazing that isn't worth having, rubbish hay because it can't be cut till August.

There were many reasons we cleared gorse and scrub but people have forgotten why.

I prefer a large neat garden and so do a lot of the public. Since I got rid of the enviro strips many locals have commented to the effect that they are glad I have tidied the place up!

 

[Henarar]

park keepers maybe
glorified no

 

[Doc]

Yep.
Is the farm a business or a side show?
The profit generated by the mine indicates the farm is incidental use of space, like a nice sign or driveway.
This is not relevant to most farming businesses. HLS and ELS payments are just window dressing for the tax payer.

 

[lazy farmer]

No. Crack on.

 

[digger64]

We have a choice. Take the money and be a scruffy park keeper.

Or do without it and keep a large neat garden.

I was only discussing this with my foot trimmer this afternoon. All sorts of problems now with ticks on cattle from uncontrolled gorse scrub on higher level stewardship land and grazing that isn't worth having, rubbish hay because it can't be cut till August.

There were many reasons we cleared gorse and scrub but people have forgotten why.

I prefer a large neat garden and so do a lot of the public. Since I got rid of the enviro strips many locals have commented to the effect that they are glad I have tidied the place up!

Good post sums it all up neatly

 

[spin cycle]

whatever pays the bills......this 'park keeper' it always amuses me because parks are normally immaculate

 

[caveman]

We have a choice. Take the money and be a scruffy park keeper.

Or do without it and keep a large neat garden.

I was only discussing this with my foot trimmer this afternoon. All sorts of problems now with ticks on cattle from uncontrolled gorse scrub on higher level stewardship land and grazing that isn't worth having, rubbish hay because it can't be cut till August.

There were many reasons we cleared gorse and scrub but people have forgotten why.

I prefer a large neat garden and so do a lot of the public. Since I got rid of the enviro strips many locals have commented to the effect that they are glad I have tidied the place up!

It's still possible to farm for a profit and keep the place tidy whilst picking up a £70/£80 bonus per acre per year.

As with the nickel miners.....it's also possible to use your spread as a base for more lucrative enterprises.

 

[Tarw Coch]

It's still possible to farm for a profit and keep the place tidy whilst picking up a £70/£80 bonus per acre per year.

As with the nickel miners.....it's also possible to use your spread as a base for more lucrative enterprises.

Pretty sure there are figures that would suggest plenty of farmers profit is less than their sub cheque, perhaps they are doing things wrong.

I don't think it's right to compare farmers receiving SFP/BPS to park keepers though, too many conflicting interests, you won't have to wait long to hear a government minister talking about wanting farmers to increase efficiency to feed the country/world. I suspect most farmers would be better off with their money invested elsewhere and let the govt run UK agriculture with the farmers working for them as employees, 40 hour week, overtime, regular days off plus holidays, sick pay and pensions, and they'd have to invest in up to date well maintained machinery.

Closest example I can think of is a guy I was talking to just yesterday, brought up on a council holding. They bought the farm off the council and sold most of the land to a neighbour, dad still lives in the house and son has done one of the barns up and now works for the environment agency. The EA are currently doing some maintenance work on a nearby watercourse, two guys turn up each day in specially modified land rovers full of all the kit they need plus they have a new nice spec tractor with loader and winch at their disposal. They come, they do their job, they go home, they get paid, if a job takes longer than expected that's just how it is, if more staff are needed or the job doesn't get done it doesn't affect them financially. If a piece of kit doesn't work, again, not their problem, they may or may not have to sort the problem out themselves but they won't be picking up the bill.

Being a park keeper doesn't sound to bad to me although like most things I'm sure the grass is greener the other side of the fence, but as illustrated by Walter P's original post I don't think most farmers like the bailiff refered to are cut out to be park keepers.

 

[caveman]

Pretty sure there are figures that would suggest plenty of farmers profit is less than their sub cheque, perhaps they are doing things wrong.

That'll be because they get their payment and invest it unwisely.

The payment is in fact pure profit on the land as soon as it clears in the bank.
The trick is, is to obtain it using as few inputs as possible, or better still, whilst making a profit out of obtaining it.

 

[KMA]

That'll be because they get their payment and invest it unwisely.

The payment is in fact pure profit on the land as soon as it clears in the bank.
The trick is, is to obtain it using as few inputs as possible, or better still, whilst making a profit out of obtaining it.

Nah, that's because they're not trying to farm in/next to the 'Garden of England', light chalky loam, perfect climate to grow pretty much anything, rather than the west of Scotland, Cumbria and Wales where it's pee'd down almost every day for the last 3 years

 

[caveman]

That's my point.
Thank you.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I suspect most farmers would be better off with their money invested elsewhere and let the govt run UK agriculture with the farmers working for them as employees, 40 hour week, overtime, regular days off plus holidays, sick pay and pensions, and they'd have to invest in up to date well maintained machinery.

Perhaps jot that idea down for comrade corbyn. I’m sure he would be more than happy to take your money “invest” it elsewhere and return us to a far more pleasant rural existence like they experienced in the mother country around the time of stalin. Where do I vote?

 

[Goweresque]

I don't think it's right to compare farmers receiving SFP/BPS to park keepers though, too many conflicting interests, you won't have to wait long to hear a government minister talking about wanting farmers to increase efficiency to feed the country/world.

Thing is, once they've started giving out the subsidy as 'environmental payments' it'll be political dynamite to cut them. The phrase 'farm subsidies' evokes images of blokes in Range Rovers shouting at walkers to 'Get orf my land!!!', no-one is going to fight against cutting their money, whereas cutting environmental payments evokes images of the countryside being bulldozed and sprayed with chemicals, and no-one wants that to happen, so it won't. Not least because for once we'd have the massed ranks of the eco-lobby on our side.

Thats why the NFU et al should be out in front creating a subsidy system proposal for post-Brexit that is fundamentally environmental in nature, but keeps farmers in control, not letting the eco brigade rule the roost. Just trying to keep things as they are and wittering on about food production is a doomed exercise. They need to see which way the wind is blowing and tack with it, not head straight into the storm.

 

[Pan mixer]

Thing is, once they've started giving out the subsidy as 'environmental payments' it'll be political dynamite to cut them. The phrase 'farm subsidies' evokes images of blokes in Range Rovers shouting at walkers to 'Get orf my land!!!', no-one is going to fight against cutting their money, whereas cutting environmental payments evokes images of the countryside being bulldozed and sprayed with chemicals, and no-one wants that to happen, so it won't. Not least because for once we'd have the massed ranks of the eco-lobby on our side.

Thats why the NFU et al should be out in front creating a subsidy system proposal for post-Brexit that is fundamentally environmental in nature, but keeps farmers in control, not letting the eco brigade rule the roost. Just trying to keep things as they are and wittering on about food production is a doomed exercise. They need to see which way the wind is blowing and tack with it, not head straight into the storm.

and we all know what the worst thing for wildlife is..... people, so more reason to shout gerrof.

Good plan that man.

 

[Sheeponfire]

That's my point.
Thank you.

OK!!! So if I have read that right you are saying anyone OUTSIDE " garden of england " should not really farm as the land is not productive enough to survive post sub.....(return on capital etc)

Thats a big shout....

 

[digger64]

Probably a more reliable source of income - not really weather dependensubstantial s you are selling ice creams too.

Depends yes you know what you should get , but will you get it ? Got a feeling they will police it more than now if it is substantial also if the public become their eyes it could cause serious grief
And this all comes with work , cost and potential lost income , Also once they have "invested " do you not think that they might want to make it permanent feature perhaps seeing as they have sort of bought the right

 

[caveman]

OK!!! So if I have read that right you are saying anyone OUTSIDE " garden of england " should not really farm as the land is not productive enough to survive post sub.....(return on capital etc)

Thats a big shout....

They are your words. Not mine.
Some investments pay off.
Some don't.
Nobody in their right minds would of been investing in land in the UK, with the sole idea of agricultural returns paying for the purchase and providing a profit on the enterprises undertaken, for years since.