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Glyphosate alternative?
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<blockquote data-quote="Old McDonald" data-source="post: 7018864" data-attributes="member: 47276"><p>My ag supplier has come back to me with advice there are only two products available and they are Musketeer (Diflufenican + Iodosulfron-methyl-sodium + mefenpyr-diethyl) and Kyleo (2,4-D + glyphosate). As already posted 2,4-D alone is not supplied in Portugal.</p><p></p><p>I have only 4 hectares to cover so have ordered sufficient to treat it with both products. It is not a big outlay, €159 for 20L of Kyleo and €255 for 5L of Musketeer. Cost/ha is €40 and €51 respectively. If not used this year, then it is available for next.</p><p></p><p>It seems Musketeer was specifically introduced to Spain and Portugal to deal with fleabanes (called avoadinha here) and there are at least three of them which are problematic. I suspect, but no proof of course, that they have only been a minor problem in the past because other weeds were dominant. I have remarked before about how my problem weed has changed over time and I think those most susceptible to glyphosate or disturbance died out first, then followed in order of dominance until I am left with the glypho resistant one as the dominant weed.</p><p></p><p>Suitable spraying windows are going to be a problem for at least a week or so. Overnight minimums are over 20ºC with 26.3 and 27.4 after 11 pm last two nights, and 21.5 at 3 am today. They rise as soon as the sun does. I do not have a max temp for spraying Musketeer but am always reluctant to do any if temps go much over 25 anyway – the limit for Kyleo.</p><p></p><p>I will do the spaces between the rows first (trialling both products) and then assess the “between trees” hand lance work. It is fairly straightforward as a rule and almost all trees are old enough not to be bothered by most chemicals if the spray is kept down and not allowed to drift up onto the leaves, but I am always wary. If need be I can take out perhaps only the middle 2m in a 6m spacing and very close to most trees is usually weed free.</p><p></p><p>My supplier tells me he enquired of some agronomists as well as the chemical company reps and one suggested that I “damage” but not destroy the weeds before spraying. Apparently this gives a better kill. I note from the thread stevR started “Roundup/generic and 2,4-D??”, which incorporated remarks about Kyleo, that rolling Mares Tail was recommended. I do not have a roller but do have a couple of gadgets I made up from scrap as a heavy land leveller and a sort of upside down chain harrow – an implement I have always used for shallow covering of grass seed. Again, experimentation is called for. I will test these two and decide on the best option then have it attached to one tractor and do an area immediately in front of the sprayer on the other tractor.</p><p></p><p>I will report the results on the other thread rather than keep two similar ones going.</p><p></p><p>In the meantime, any thoughts on a surfactant with both products? Nothing mentioned by the chemical co. I have almost always used only washing up liquid in the past and have nothing else to hand. Ordering takes a while because of the small quantity I need.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Old McDonald, post: 7018864, member: 47276"] My ag supplier has come back to me with advice there are only two products available and they are Musketeer (Diflufenican + Iodosulfron-methyl-sodium + mefenpyr-diethyl) and Kyleo (2,4-D + glyphosate). As already posted 2,4-D alone is not supplied in Portugal. I have only 4 hectares to cover so have ordered sufficient to treat it with both products. It is not a big outlay, €159 for 20L of Kyleo and €255 for 5L of Musketeer. Cost/ha is €40 and €51 respectively. If not used this year, then it is available for next. It seems Musketeer was specifically introduced to Spain and Portugal to deal with fleabanes (called avoadinha here) and there are at least three of them which are problematic. I suspect, but no proof of course, that they have only been a minor problem in the past because other weeds were dominant. I have remarked before about how my problem weed has changed over time and I think those most susceptible to glyphosate or disturbance died out first, then followed in order of dominance until I am left with the glypho resistant one as the dominant weed. Suitable spraying windows are going to be a problem for at least a week or so. Overnight minimums are over 20ºC with 26.3 and 27.4 after 11 pm last two nights, and 21.5 at 3 am today. They rise as soon as the sun does. I do not have a max temp for spraying Musketeer but am always reluctant to do any if temps go much over 25 anyway – the limit for Kyleo. I will do the spaces between the rows first (trialling both products) and then assess the “between trees” hand lance work. It is fairly straightforward as a rule and almost all trees are old enough not to be bothered by most chemicals if the spray is kept down and not allowed to drift up onto the leaves, but I am always wary. If need be I can take out perhaps only the middle 2m in a 6m spacing and very close to most trees is usually weed free. My supplier tells me he enquired of some agronomists as well as the chemical company reps and one suggested that I “damage” but not destroy the weeds before spraying. Apparently this gives a better kill. I note from the thread stevR started “Roundup/generic and 2,4-D??”, which incorporated remarks about Kyleo, that rolling Mares Tail was recommended. I do not have a roller but do have a couple of gadgets I made up from scrap as a heavy land leveller and a sort of upside down chain harrow – an implement I have always used for shallow covering of grass seed. Again, experimentation is called for. I will test these two and decide on the best option then have it attached to one tractor and do an area immediately in front of the sprayer on the other tractor. I will report the results on the other thread rather than keep two similar ones going. In the meantime, any thoughts on a surfactant with both products? Nothing mentioned by the chemical co. I have almost always used only washing up liquid in the past and have nothing else to hand. Ordering takes a while because of the small quantity I need. [/QUOTE]
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