Glyphosate

[Ivorbiggun]

What chemicals are you alluding to and why?

Ollie said there wasn’t a man on this forum who would use glyphosate if it was proven to be harmful.
loads of others state it on the can labels but farmers still use them.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Ollie said there wasn’t a man on this forum who would use glyphosate if it was proven to be harmful.
loads of others state it on the can labels but farmers still use them.

Farmers still have Limousin Cattle and they don't even have a health warning on them. Just a case of it's never going to affect you.

 

[Cowabunga]

Ollie said there wasn’t a man on this forum who would use glyphosate if it was proven to be harmful.
loads of others state it on the can labels but farmers still use them.

Be as specific as I asked you to be.

A massive proportion of the stuff you use in your house, including most medicines and painkillers have warning that they are harmful with precautions to take, but everyone, and I bet even your righteous self still uses them. Do you use paracetamol or aspirin? Paracetamol in rather modest doses can kill rather painfully over less than a couple of days. Modestly high doses of aspirin can cause uncontrolled internal bleeding and stomach ulcers, yet they all have their use and are indeed commonly available everywhere and administered by even the least intelligent and sensible people in society. Both their toxicity levels can be cumulative at more modest doses over time.

 

[yellow belly]

We only use it for stubble cleaning between 1 or 2kg ha depending on the weed infestation. I don't know anything about growing GM soya as to whether 10kg a ha over the growing season stresses it or not. I guess they are trying to combat increasing levels of superweeds infesting the crops.

Yo mean litres
360 g of glyphosate to the litre so 2 litres is 720 g per ha

 

[yellow belly]

France isn't going anywhere atm. It's the post Brexit UK that is now faced with the uncertainty of a ban on Glyphosate use on one hand or it's increased use if GMO's are made legal.

As I have stated many times if roundup,ready crops came in I would use less round up si because the roud up ready crop would need to be controlled in the other crops
but the use of other insurance stacks of herbicide would be not needed
the kg of active used on crops would be halved or a 1/4
especially if the round up ready crop was flea beetle resistant osr
osr is not very easly killed by round up but can be controlled with many cheap low weights of active
but the big benefit in osr is that grass weeds And cleaver could be controlled with out several kg of residual that may end up in the ground water

 

[Muck Spreader]

Yo mean litres
360 g of glyphosate to the litre so 2 litres is 720 g per ha

Depends on the the concentration of the Glyphosate you are using.

 

[ollie989898]

Depends on the the concentration of the Glyphosate you are using.

And your application rate.

I still don't see how a farmer could get near 10kg/ha of AI annually. 4L of 360 is only 1400g and that's enough to kill a full blown grass ley. No arable farmer I know need be putting that on in one go.

 

[Adeptandy]

And your application rate.

I still don't see how a farmer could get near 10kg/ha of AI annually. 4L of 360 is only 1400g and that's enough to kill a full blown grass ley. No arable farmer I know need be putting that on in one go.

Rarely put below 4l/ha unless it’s the genuine stuff and that’s 3.2l/ha. Surely cutting rates is how resistance starts

 

[ollie989898]

Rarely put below 4l/ha unless it’s the genuine stuff and that’s 3.2l/ha. Surely cutting rates is how resistance starts

The intended rates as specified by the manufacturer are listed on the label. I don't know why anyone would use anything like the maximum label dose on stubbles or a few volunteers?

 

[Adeptandy]

The intended rates as specified by the manufacturer are listed on the label. I don't know why anyone would use anything like the maximum label dose on stubbles or a few volunteers?

If it was just stubble and a few volunteers, unless in a DD situation, I would class it as over use of Pesticide, surely the way to treat that would be by shallow cultivation

 

[yellow belly]

Rarely put below 4l/ha unless it’s the genuine stuff and that’s 3.2l/ha. Surely cutting rates is how resistance starts

I only use 4 l on weeds that are well established grass lays thistles or rose bay willow herb
annuals under 3 months 2 litres is plenty

resistance build up is a very complex mechanism
with strobularins and septoria because it was so effective it built up quicker but with ctl it was not as effective but lasted longer

in my mind the issue with resistance is 2 factors
1 is the gene or genes that cause resistance in the weed population

2 do we rely on a singe chemical for control

bg resistance built up firstly to
ipu in the 1980s after 10 years of very effective use in continuos wheat
antlantis was very effective the first time it was used but 3 lots with out a spring crop and it failed

those that used a rotation Of crops and chemicals and ploughing took a lot longer to get build up
on some of my field it still worked Last time we used them

in the usa where they have developed rr resistance quickest it is when every crop relies on rr only
rotate crops and control mechanisms no resistance build up

 

[Adeptandy]

I appreciate it’s probably a simple way of looking at it, but how do vaccines work, by using a low dose, why are we told to use the full course of prescribed medications.
Just my thoughts, not expecting everyone to concur

 

[yellow belly]

If we get specific
on each weed there is a rate of glyphosate that kills all the weed depending On size
some it is more than 6 litres other it is 1 litre

 

[neilo]

I appreciate it’s probably a simple way of looking at it, but how do vaccines work, by using a low dose, why are we told to use the full course of prescribed medications.
Just my thoughts, not expecting everyone to concur

Vaccines work in an entirely different way. They aren’t killing anything, and are very rarely even a live agent. Size of dose is just enough to trick the body into thinking it has infection, so that it produces an antibody response and is ready to protect against the real infection. A bigger dose would do just the same, but just cost more.

It is a very different mechanism to that which develops resistance to pesticides or anti-microbials.

 

[Muck Spreader]

And your application rate.

I still don't see how a farmer could get near 10kg/ha of AI annually. 4L of 360 is only 1400g and that's enough to kill a full blown grass ley. No arable farmer I know need be putting that on in one go.

I think Argentina is the biggest user of Glyphosate per Ha in the world, as they now have a massive problem with resistant weeds particularly Johnson Grass and Hairy Fleabane which were affecting over 20 million Ha of crops even in 2015. To make it worse the previous government only allowed the export of Soya, which with a major move to no till has forced farmers to use higher and higher amounts of Glyphosate.

 

[ollie989898]

I think Argentina is the biggest user of Glyphosate per Ha in the world, as they now have a massive problem with resistant weeds particularly Johnson Grass and Hairy Fleabane which were affecting over 20 million Ha of crops even in 2015. To make it worse the previous government only allowed the export of Soya, which with a major move to no till has forced farmers to use higher and higher amounts of Glyphosate.

If this is true then they are surely down a path to madness and causing that single active ingredient to fail, resulting in the wholesale failure of their system as it has become so reliant on a single product.

 

[Cowabunga]

I think Argentina is the biggest user of Glyphosate per Ha in the world, as they now have a massive problem with resistant weeds particularly Johnson Grass and Hairy Fleabane which were affecting over 20 million Ha of crops even in 2015. To make it worse the previous government only allowed the export of Soya, which with a major move to no till has forced farmers to use higher and higher amounts of Glyphosate.

If weeds are resistant to glyphosate they need to deal with them using other herbicides, not more of what they are resistant to. Presumably Argentinian farmers are like all farmers, or most at any rate, and use whatever is economically viable to get the best return from the crop. I somehow doubt that using ever more herbicide on weeds that are resistant to it is compatible with low margin cropping agriculture.

 

[ollie989898]

Vaccines work in an entirely different way. They aren’t killing anything, and are very rarely even a live agent. Size of dose is just enough to trick the body into thinking it has infection, so that it produces an antibody response and is ready to protect against the real infection. A bigger dose would do just the same, but just cost more.

It is a very different mechanism to that which develops resistance to pesticides or anti-microbials.

Some evidence does suggest that higher doses of a vaccine are more effective than a standard comparative dose. That being said, this study is only talking about influenza and in a very specific population. When discussing a much larger effort with an emphasis on overall public health, there is clearly a cost-benefit discussion to be had.

Relative Vaccine Effectiveness of High-Dose Versus Standard-Dose Influenza Vaccines Among Veterans Health Administration Patients

Using the prior event rate ratio approach, which controls for confounding from unmeasured variables, we found that, in protecting senior Veterans Health Adminis

academic.oup.com

There is a similar argument presently on-going about whether UK women should be given a 1, 2 or 3 doses of the HPV vaccine (HPV being thought to cause 80% of all cervical cancers so well worth pursuing). The 3 dose program I understand gives near lifetime protection from the virus but it is argued that a single dose is pretty effective on it's own.

Comparison of two dose and three dose human papillomavirus vaccine schedules: cost effectiveness analysis based on transmission model

Objective To investigate the incremental cost effectiveness of two dose human papillomavirus vaccination and of additionally giving a third dose. Design Cost effectiveness study based on a transmission dynamic model of human papillomavirus vaccination. Two dose schedules for bivalent or...

www.bmj.com

Efficacy and immunogenicity of a single dose of human papillomavirus vaccine compared to no vaccination or standard three and two-dose vaccination regimens: A systematic review of evidence from clinical trials

This study aimed to systematically review the literature on the efficacy and immunogenicity of single-dose HPV vaccination compared to no vaccination …

www.sciencedirect.com

In any event as you describe the action of vaccines is wholly different to that of pesticides.

 

[shearerlad]

If these findings are true and correct, and then peer reviewed to confirm it could really stir up the hornets nest https://geneticliteracyproject.org/...another-study-says-yes-but-what-does-it-mean/

 

[yellow belly]

Thalidomide also has benefits in some diseases

genetically modified rice also has health benefits

benzene can also cause cancer and is in every day use

the issue is the specific risk