Govt finally realised the problems of Renewables as the primary source of UK power?

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Not sure this spat will overly affect us , very little gas from USSR and no leccy
Really!!

"On Monday prices in Britain jumped almost a fifth on concerns Russia may invade Ukraine, disrupting supplies from Russia to Europe.
Britain does not import much gas directly from Russia but does obtain supplies from Europe. The EU gets about 40pc of its gas from Russia, and prices in Britain track those on the Continent.
In a note on Tuesday, analysts at US investment bank Stifel warned that prices in Britain risk hitting 1,000 pence per therm if Russia’s supplies to Europe were cut off."


Would seem to disagree with your viewpoint...
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Really!!

"On Monday prices in Britain jumped almost a fifth on concerns Russia may invade Ukraine, disrupting supplies from Russia to Europe.
Britain does not import much gas directly from Russia but does obtain supplies from Europe. The EU gets about 40pc of its gas from Russia, and prices in Britain track those on the Continent.
In a note on Tuesday, analysts at US investment bank Stifel warned that prices in Britain risk hitting 1,000 pence per therm if Russia’s supplies to Europe were cut off."


Would seem to disagree with your viewpoint...
That's markets , we are not directly affected , ie no gas at all
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Often think long snake like floating generators paddle wheel type on rivers could do a lot for clean renewables
No there is very little power generated by such methods. What happens to such devices is that the water simply passes round them . You need both fall and volume. The old fashioned water mills had very little real power, I think the one on the Wensum at Norwich was ranked as one of the largest in the vountry and generated 10 Hp ie 7.5 kilowatt. 2 and a half kettles!
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
vlad is angry because NATO is trying to re invent itself after critiscism coupla years back by pushing east ,,,,if ukraine joined battlefield nuclear weapons would be in reach of moscow...... the usa wouldn't tolerate nukes in cuba

in the last week....uk has sent weapons and advisers to ukraine whilst usa has put troops on 'high alert' and warned of 'false flag' attacks....they're 'poking the bear' with a stick ffs

pull the troops back,,,,talk about ukraine neutrality rather than nato membership and get nordstream 2 flowing

is burtons still going?.....might have to be primark;)

The Ukraine is NOT going to join NATO in any short distance of time.
You should rephrase your post
“ we will give the Ukraine to Putin and then we can have peace in our time as it is a long way away and we don”t give a sh!t about these poor sods”
Then Boris can come back from a meeting with Vlad waving a peace of paper, while Vlad sends part of his army in and shifts the rest to the Estonian border for next years round of discussions.
Dictators the world over are the same, Alexander the great , Ghengis Khan , Hitler, Stalin, now Vlad thinks he can join the ranks.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
That's markets , we are not directly affected , ie no gas at all
It is not correctnthat we are not directly affected by Russian Gas. We are connected to Europes gas system but most of our supply comes from the North sea and most imports from Norway. If the Russians cut the supply the North sea will be supplying the bulk of Europes gas and the pressure will fall, at some point supplies will have to be cut and prices will rocket.
 

Muddyroads

Member
Location
Devon
vlad is angry because NATO is trying to re invent itself after critiscism coupla years back by pushing east ,,,,if ukraine joined battlefield nuclear weapons would be in reach of moscow...... the usa wouldn't tolerate nukes in cuba

in the last week....uk has sent weapons and advisers to ukraine whilst usa has put troops on 'high alert' and warned of 'false flag' attacks....they're 'poking the bear' with a stick ffs

pull the troops back,,,,talk about ukraine neutrality rather than nato membership and get nordstream 2 flowing

is burtons still going?.....might have to be primark;)
A guy who does a bit of work for us works for a local transport firm. He collected some packages from a factory last week and casually asked where they were destined for. “Russia” the chap said, “parts for military vehicles“.
Seems like we’re supporting both sides.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
From the Telegraph today:

Electricity capacity boosted amid fears war in Ukraine will spark rolling blackouts​

Analysts say gas prices are at risk of quadrupling in the extreme event that Russia cuts off supplies to Europe

ByRachel Millard25 January 2022 • 4:38pm

The resilience of Britain's energy system is being strengthened by ministers, as analysts warned that a Russian invasion of Ukraine risks a surge in gas prices that would spark rolling blackouts.
The Business Department has moved to ensure more electricity supply than previously planned is on standby next winter in a bid to fill gaps.
It comes as City analysts warned that gas prices in Britain could more than quadruple to 1,000 pence, or £10, per therm, triggering rolling blackouts, in the extreme scenario that all Russian supplies to Europe are cut off amid tensions over Ukraine.
Meanwhile, low wind speeds over the past 48 hours have forced one of Britain’s few remaining coal-fired power stations to come online for the first time since November.

A conflict in Ukraine risks compounding the gas price crisis gripping Europe, which has been struggling since September with a shortfall in supplies.

Gas supplies have a knock-on effect on the cost of electricity prices, because the fossil fuel is used to generate more than a third of power in the UK and about 20pc in Europe.
Closures and outages at ageing nuclear plants have added to the pressure, along with the shutdown of some large coal and gas-fired power plants as part of the Government's green agenda.
The shift towards wind and solar power also leaves UK supplies more vulnerable to the weather.

Each year, selected generators are paid to make sure they are on standby to meet looming electricity shortfalls at short notice, for example if supply is low just as people arrive home in the evening and put on their kettles.
The Government has now decided to set a target of procuring 5.4 gigawatts of capacity for this market in 2022-2023.
This is higher than the target of 4.7 gigawatts recommended by National Grid ESO, the body tasked with balancing electricity supply and demand.

The Business Secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, told Fintan Slye, director of National Grid ESO, in a letter: “While I agree with the analysis you provided in fulfilment of your remit under the Capacity Market Regulations, this target reflects the broader uncertainties within the power sector.”

Drax’s two remaining coal-fired power turbines in Yorkshire are among the generators paid to be on standby to deliver electricity supplies at short notice.
The Drax power station in Yorkshire

Both were put into service on Monday night amid low wind speeds, according to market data specialists EnAppSys, charging £4,000 per megawatt hour.
EDF’s sole remaining coal-fired station, West Burton A in Nottinghamshire, was also generating power on Monday night.
Both EDF and Drax’s remaining coal-fired units are due to close in September as part of the efforts to cut carbon emissions.
The UK is trying to rapidly build more wind and solar power but in the meantime is heavily reliant on natural gas for power supplies.
Global gas supply shortages have pushed British wholesale prices up more than five-fold in recent months.
They are now consistently above 200p per therm, compared to long term averages of 40p to 50p.
On Monday prices in Britain jumped almost a fifth on concerns Russia may invade Ukraine, disrupting supplies from Russia to Europe.
Britain does not import much gas directly from Russia but does obtain supplies from Europe. The EU gets about 40pc of its gas from Russia, and prices in Britain track those on the Continent.
In a note on Tuesday, analysts at US investment bank Stifel warned that prices in Britain risk hitting 1,000 pence per therm if Russia’s supplies to Europe were cut off.

They argue there would not be enough gas available on the global market in liquified natural gas to make up for the shortfall.
The analysts, Chris Wheaton and David Round, said: "It's not pretty. Energy rationing would be inevitable in this scenario, which would be disastrous for the European economy.
“Could we see quadruple digit UK gas prices - over 1000p/therm in this event? Yes we could, in our view.
“Demand for power would need to be reduced. This would require industry shut-ins, power rationing through rolling blackouts, to both reduce average demand and also shift and flatten power demand peaks.”
Russia is extremely unlikely to cut off gas supplies, not least as it needs the revenue and wants to be seen as a stable supplier.
However, the analysis reflects mounting concern in the market over the risk to supplies.
Stifel also believes that Russia could make up for lost gas revenues with to a likely increase in the oil price under such circumstances.
A government spokesman said: “Energy security is an absolute priority for the Government, and we take no chances with security of supply. The Capacity Market acts as an effective insurance mechanism, providing secure and affordable electricity that families and businesses can rely on.
“In setting the auction targets we consider a range of factors including the possibility that some sources of generation may not be available at the time of the delivery year. Through the Capacity Market we have secured the electricity Britain needs to cope with peaks in demand out to 2024/25.”

This puff is the most ludicrous piece of tripe conceivable. The government has demolished the vast bulk of the old coal fired stations, we can at most now produce about 3 gigawatt I think from the black stuff.
In theory we have total generating capacity of 80 gigawatt but this is made up of 24 G of wing and 14G of solar, ie nearly half
Renewable other ie AD etc is about 4.5G and hydro about 1.5G
Then we have about 6.5G nuclear
So we have about 12.5 G of reliable non carbon power, this will not change in a hurry certainly no way by next winter if we are to use less gas!
We currently have about 34G of gas powered generation and we need an absolute minimum on an average winters day of 45G
We also have virtually no storage for gas to build up reserves thanks to decisions made by recent governments short sightedness
Who would run a farm with 4days storage of diesel!
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
It is not correctnthat we are not directly affected by Russian Gas. We are connected to Europes gas system but most of our supply comes from the North sea and most imports from Norway. If the Russians cut the supply the North sea will be supplying the bulk of Europes gas and the pressure will fall, at some point supplies will have to be cut and prices will rocket.
So we're indirectly affected . (y) ;)
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
So we're indirectly affected . (y) ;)
far more complex, while we do have a direct conection to Norway it is only capable of supplying at maximum demand 20% of our needs. this pipe also supplies some of Europes gas both directly and indirectly. We also import through Belgium. The issue being as we are all connected together, Europes shortfall means that we have to bid for the gas as they do, so we are directly affected and indirectly ;)
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
No there is very little power generated by such methods. What happens to such devices is that the water simply passes round them . You need both fall and volume. The old fashioned water mills had very little real power, I think the one on the Wensum at Norwich was ranked as one of the largest in the vountry and generated 10 Hp ie 7.5 kilowatt. 2 and a half kettles!
Not strictly true. You either need fall or volume to generate reasonable amounts of electric and if you have both your in a win win situation. There is sufficient hydro and tidal potential in the UK to provide all the electrical power in the UK grid but it will never happen while the EA are in charge of this vital resource.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Not strictly true. You either need fall or volume to generate reasonable amounts of electric and if you have both your in a win win situation. There is sufficient hydro and tidal potential in the UK to provide all the electrical power in the UK grid but it will never happen while the EA are in charge of this vital resource.
Certainly the tides could provide all our power needs but I think the cost would be vast and there is danger. in many systems that they would silt up.
La Rance the biggest constructed only produces 0.24Gigawatt and again needs some back up at the turn of the tides, although of course with sufficeint around the coast this would be negated.
The biggest issue of course is the environmental cost and every tree hugger in the country would be set against
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Shame all those cooling towers down the Trent Valley were blown up!
Best thing to happen to them. CCGT far more efficient than conventional coal fired stations and its not as though were short of coal fields to harvest coal bed methane. Can see it being a good farm diversification if done correctly.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
We would not be worrying about our lights going off though !
We should not be worrying about the lights going off anyway as we have surplus CCGT plants to cover demand all thats needed is a guarantee of gas supply at reasonable price which UK can easily do if the right storage and production of UK gas is put in place. Theres really not much of the UK which is not sat on top of a coal seam that gas could not be extracted from.
 

Secret Agronomist

Member
Arable Farmer
Best thing to happen to them. CCGT far more efficient than conventional coal fired stations and its not as though were short of coal fields to harvest coal bed methane. Can see it being a good farm diversification if done correctly.
You can guarantee our respective govts will f it up and give all the royalties away.
 

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