Grain Drying

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think you are right. If we stop using our old system it will be central storage for us. Storage standards will only get tighter so we will leave it to the experts. Load it once and it’s gone.
From what I understand, and somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but when you buy a share in central storage you can actually sell it again for example when you retire so it’s not actually dead money as such and probably better than a deteriorating grain store in your own yard with all the associated running and maintenance costs. No way we could justify the outlay for a state of the art system here on our own premises.

please don’t assume cash spent on CS will ever be seen again or depend on it for your retirement

ask you bank manager if they will lend for it secured just against the storage ! and read a few of the numerous threads on tff about it, that should tell you all you need to know
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
either invest in a opico type dryer and simple store - circa £150k should do it to a practical level for 900ac

or sell for harvest movement as is and take the moisture claims

or find a local commercial store to send it to and accept charges

use whatever income the existing sheds are bringing in to offset cost of the above ?

don’t buy CS - it makes no sense vs using commercial stores with no buy in
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
please don’t assume cash spent on CS will ever be seen again or depend on it for your retirement

ask you bank manager if they will lend for it secured just against the storage ! and read a few of the numerous threads on tff about it, that should tell you all you need to know

You would think it was an appreciating asset the way it’s portrayed on some firms websites, but if it’s unrecoverable that’s purely academic.
I haven’t looked into it in detail as I value my own independence to move dry and store grain entirely under my own control.
If my facilities fail inspection and can’t be bodged up economically then I will probably go opico and pedestals. Not sure I want to commit non recoverable sums to a central store at this stage in my farming career.
Can sympathise with the OP. A dilemma for many of us up and down the country with old equipment and not much in the job to reinvest.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
You would think it was an appreciating asset the way it’s portrayed on some firms websites, but if it’s unrecoverable that’s purely academic.
I haven’t looked into it in detail as I value my own independence to move dry and store grain entirely under my own control.
If my facilities fail inspection and can’t be bodged up economically then I will probably go opico and pedestals. Not sure I want to commit non recoverable sums to a central store at this stage in my farming career.
Can sympathise with the OP. A dilemma for many of us up and down the country with old equipment and not much in the job to reinvest.

we ran opico’s for years and they are a good solution with good resale value vs other types of installed dryer systems

well thought out set up and you can cope with a lot of grain really for the cost
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
please don’t assume cash spent on CS will ever be seen again or depend on it for your retirement

ask you bank manager if they will lend for it secured just against the storage ! and read a few of the numerous threads on tff about it, that should tell you all you need to know
Not going to get into an argument with you on this but how it spending £x per tonne on storage at home + yearly runnings costs any different to spending £x per tonne on central store + running costs? It’s just in a different place and you share it?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
we ran opico’s for years and they are a good solution with good resale value vs other types of installed dryer systems

well thought out set up and you can cope with a lot of grain really for the cost

How did you get on with cooling the grain during a hot spell? I know they cool the grain but it must limit throughout. I note a 9 ton opico does 4.5 t per hour but can’t see how it can cool it if unloading in the heat of a hot day.
we run a continuous flow for 6 hours to fill 2 x 10 ton radial ventilated bins. Then blow the bins in the evening or early morning to cool it thoroughly. It’s like sauna in the barn while those bins are cooling even though the continuous flow dryer had a final stage cooling bed. The thought of unloading an opico into a shed with nothing but pedestals at midday in august would concern me.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Not going to get into an argument with you on this but how it spending £x per tonne on storage at home + yearly runnings costs any different to spending £x per tonne on central store + running costs? It’s just in a different place and you share it?

Without opening a can of worms I can (and have) built top-quality grain storage for less £ than a CS buy in, I run it for way less than the annual fee of a CS and have a truly appreciating assets that's already worth many times what it cost to build, I could sell it tomorrow if I wanted or (with pp) use it for other none agriculture income sources (the perfect retirement plan if my kids are not interested in farming) .......... frankly other than the £99 I once spent on a software licence in 2012 its quite possibly the best investment I ever made !

One of my more remote contract farm customers who has no storage is renting commercial space this year for way less than the annual fee of CS and they don't have to buy in - its going to cost them £8/t plus drying if required and another £4 to get it there ......... how would you convince them they really should put up over £200k to buy into CS instead and then still pay a annual fee similar what this year will cost them ?
 
Last edited:

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
If I went down the opico route I’d need at least a 20 ton model to achieve any improvement over my antiquated 3 tph continuous flow Almet system as cooling is the limiting factor, not drying.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Without opening a can of worms I can (and have) built top quality grain storage for less £ than a CS buy in, I run it for way less than the annual fee of a CS and have a truly appreciating assets that's already worth many times what it cost to build, I could sell it tomorrow if I wanted .......... frankly other than the £99 i once spent on a senior licence in 2012 its quite possibly the best investment I ever made !

One of my more remote contact farm customers who has no storage is renting commercial space this year for way less than the annual fee of CS and they dot have to buy in
Common misconception between commercial and central storage handling charge is that the central store includes haulage. Around here the commercial store is more expensive per ton.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Common misconception between commercial and central storage handling charge is that the central store includes haulage. Around here the commercial store is more expensive per ton.


sorry you replied as I edited my post, how can CS compete with this ? what posible reason is there for the CS vs the comerecial store option they have taken ? This real example is a farm with no storage...................

One of my more remote contact farm customers who has no storage is renting commercial space this year for way less than the annual fee of CS and they don't have to buy in - its going to cost them £8/t plus drying if required and another £4 to get it there ......... how would you convince them they really should put up over £200k to buy into CS instead and then still pay a annual fee similar what this year will cost them ?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
If I went down the opico route I’d need at least a 20 ton model to achieve any improvement over my antiquated 3 tph continuous flow Almet system as cooling is the limiting factor, not drying.

biggest output gain from any dryer is to use pedestals - dryers rarely cool much anyway as they run at harvest when ambient air is hot , you can never cool below ambient

kick it out hot and use pedestals with some basic temp control to run at night
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
sorry you replied as I edited my post, how can CS compete with this ? what posible reason is there for the CS vs the comerecial store option they have taken ? This real example is a farm with no storage

One of my more remote contact farm customers who has no storage is renting commercial space this year for way less than the annual fee of CS and they don't have to buy in - its going to cost them £8/t plus drying if required and another £4 to get it there ......... how would you convince them they really should put up over £200k to buy into CS instead and then still pay a annual fee similar what this year will cost them ?
Depends if you want skin in the game and how it is all going to evolve over the next however many years. I take your point though. It’s not right for everyone but don’t dismiss it. Central stores do vary wildly in their value and professionalism, some I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. For this area, growing quality it works well for many.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Depends if you want skin in the game and how it is all going to evolve over the next however many years. I take your point though. It’s not right for everyone but don’t dismiss it. Central stores do vary wildly in their value and professionalism, some I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. For this area, growing quality it works well for many.

I can see how it would and how convenient and simple it is logistically and finacially - from that point of view I see the attraction especially for contract and tenant farmers

However the cost is mind-blowing though IMO vs alternatives and despite what's always claimed about being about to sell you tonnage etc Ive heard too many stories to the contrary

Building grain stores has made me richer than I expect farming ever will !
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I can see how it would and how convenient and simple it is logistically and finacially - from that point of view I see the attraction especially for contract and tenant farmers

However the cost is mind-blowing though IMO vs alternatives and despite what's always claimed about being about to sell you tonnage etc Ive heard too many stories to the contrary

Building grain stores has made me richer than I expect farming ever will !
Remember we aren’t all based on the M6 and not everyone can have a big commercial grain store! I think my CS is very good value for money because of the level of facilities it has but I’m not sure what some of the others are like. The cost to do the same on farm would be astronomical. You have to make the most of them though, no point sticking in varieties that value can’t be added to.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Remember we aren’t all based on the M6 and not everyone can have a big commercial grain store! I think my CS is very good value for money because of the level of facilities it has but I’m not sure what some of the others are like. The cost to do the same on farm would be astronomical. You have to make the most of them though, no point sticking in varieties that value can’t be added to.

the cost of building modern stores and installing drying etc is comparable or lower than CS buy in and that's all you need - I know some CS do a lot of additional stuff with colour sorters etc but does that really provide ROI ? and is it really needed ?

suits some I guess and if you have no where to build a store and no commercial stores available then you have no choice but its really not a cheap option despite no doubt being a high quality option

The logistics beyond the combine spout of it all being someone else problem sound great though I will admit !
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
the cost of building modern stores and installing drying etc is comparable or lower than CS buy in and that's all you need - I know some CS do a lot of additional stuff with colour sorters etc but does that really provide ROI ? and is it really needed ?

suits some I guess and if you have no where to build a store and no commercial stores available then you have no choice but its really not a cheap option despite no doubt being a high quality option

The logistics beyond the combine spout of it all being someone else problem sound great though I will admit !
That’s fair enough. You do have to structure business around it in terms of staffing to get the best value. There’s no point having the staffing levels to run a big grain store and out load all winter when you’ve paid a CS to do it.
 

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