Granulated lime versus ground limestone

[Walterp]

Why are pelleted lime products (Calcifert in the UK, GranLime in Ireland, etc) not regarded as effective as ground limestone, when the sales pitch is so attractive: easy to buy, measure and spread, and can be put on 'little and often'?

 

[Clive]

cost mostly - they are expensive

@Cab-over Pete i'm sure will have something to say about them !!

 

[JD-Kid]

you could put on 100 Kg's of lime dust and do the same thing works fast not alot of Ca if needing Ca compared to a few ton of lime

cost yes and no depends on how applyed distance and speed needed to change Ph etc

i can fly them on here get a good spread lift Ph for a short term improve income etc etc with hill country where it can be ground spread ground lime better long term 1-2 year time frame not alot in it but the ground lime will last longer

 

[Yale]

The issue around here is the quality of the product being supplied.

We look at the local quarry 1/2 mile away and their product they sell as lime is just the quarry dust.

This is sold into Cheshire and Shropshire and across North Wales.

To me it contains a high percentage of small chippings rather than dust.

Its the sort of stuff you could add to a concrete mix.

Delivered locally it is quite cheap at around £13/tonne delivered.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Hmmmm..............

£13/t for a sample which has a high proportion of chippings and is only lugged 1/2 a mile is not cheap. I would say that is hellish dear for a poor sample of lime on the doorstep. I can get premium products 12 miles from the quarry for that cost delivered.

Walter, the prills are effective to a point. They are just as effective as the exact same amount of ground lime being spread. Here's the rub.....the manufacturers will claim they work better. they can't and won't work better, because they are the same product. What they certainly are, is very much more expensive. If you, or anybody else, want to use them then they will work given a reasonable pH in the first place. They won't correct serious deficiencies and you will need to spread it EVERY year. Manufacturers and salesmen may just forget to mention that point.

 

[llamedos]

What is the point of paying for half the weight of the product as useless binders too?

 

[Cab-over Pete]

To be fair, I think there is very little binder in it. I think it's a good 95% plus lime dust.

But Ground Lime is 100%

 

[exmoor dave]

oh no the rep has been telling us that G Lime is just as good as ground line but you only put on a fraction (1/3?)

but what you're saying is 300kg of G Lime is the same as 300kg of ground lime? but quicker acting?

if this is the case, me thinks a change in our lime policy is in order!

we're on shallow steep sandyish soil that the rain runs straight through. acidifys quickly- gorse loves it here!
sounds like ground lime might be a better bet?

 

[neilo]

but what you're saying is 300kg of G Lime is the same as 300kg of ground lime? but quicker acting?

That's exactly right. It is the same stuff, but processed more to turn it into prills. It will work more quickly as it is a finer product, but will not last as long. It will neutralise the same amount of acidity as the same quantity of ground lime, but costs roughly 4x the amount here (& I'm on ground at £29/t spread). Is it worth that much for the convenience?

 

[Cab-over Pete]

oh no the rep has been telling us that G Lime is just as good as ground line but you only put on a fraction (1/3?)

but what you're saying is 300kg of G Lime is the same as 300kg of ground lime? but quicker acting?

if this is the case, me thinks a change in our lime policy is in order!

we're on shallow steep sandyish soil that the rain runs straight through. acidifys quickly- gorse loves it here!
sounds like ground lime might be a better bet?

Then I really do hope you haven't used it for many years. One chap who did that near here has kept me busy for the last two seasons. I take no pleasure from that, by the way. I would much sooner he had stayed with ground lime for his farms benefit, not mine.

Sandy and free draining land will need regular liming more often than not, but I do often find alkaline sandy gravels. Some very light land south of Warwick surprised me only today. Turned out to have been quarried several decades ago. As always, it all starts with regular testing.

Do you mind if I ask how much the prills are delivered per tonne?

 

[exmoor dave]

£120 ton from mole valley. been doing it for 3-4years. spread ourselves with fert spinner &GPS. changed over to g-lime partly on mvf reps speel and partly due to dad having had a few bad experiences with ground lime being tipped in-field then the speader not turning up ( for weeks in some cases).

I've been questioning our use of g-lime since having Charlie Morgan here last year on farm for a ADAS talk about soil and grass where I had a brief discussion bout G-lime.

 

[Sid]

Ideal world, 1 ton acre on a third of the farm every year. Spreader driver will hate me, but who cares

 

[multi power]

Ideal world, 1 ton acre on a third of the farm every year. Spreader driver will hate me, but who cares

perfect way to do it

 

[Walterp]

£120 ton from mole valley.

Quoted £117 per tonne for small amounts, and a 'substantial discount' for a lorry load.

Compared to £27 per tonne spread for ground lime in this district - but the difference (I am told) is that the spread rate for Calcifert is 50kg/100kg per acre, rather than 1 to 2 tonne per acre for ground lime; the figures can't be correct, can they?

But CCF do say that they have a problem getting farmers to recognise that the granules have to be spread every year.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I wouldn't hate you at all.

As long as that's what it needs and you're not just putting it on as a habit.

Reps love Prilled lime. They can put £10/t on it and no-one notices. They can't put £1/t on ground lime, so don't bother with it. It's amazing how commission can form a salesmans "unbiassed" opinion.

50 kg is a waste of time. You might as well put it on with a salt shaker. 100kg would barely be worth the effort. Man has put large bilk amounts of lime on for thousands of years, dragging it across several counties with horse and cart. Would they do all that work if a sniff would do?

It's all rubbish and it mystifies me why anyone falls for it.

 

[exmoor dave]

not a fan of prilled lime then Pete?!

MVF rep will be here in Aug for annual soil tests (we get that bit right at least ) I think a grilling about lime is in order! then maybe a change in lime policy.

up till now we've been roughly (dependent on tests) spreading 300kg or so an acre every 3 year's.

Pete I spec you feel abit like explaining liming to farmers!

 

[neilo]

I've been questioning our use of g-lime since having Charlie Morgan here last year on farm for a ADAS talk about soil and grass where I had a brief discussion bout G-lime.

Out of interest, what was Charlie Morgan's take on prilled lime? He's not normally one to mince his words.

 

[blackbob]

I thought prilled lime was made from what we call 'hot' lime, that stuff that makes rainbow patterns on your windscreen, and burns your ankles if you get it down your boots? The same stuff they use for plastering etc, soluble so works quickly but soon washed out of the soil

 

[multi power]

I wouldn't hate you at all.

As long as that's what it needs and you're not just putting it on as a habit.

Reps love Prilled lime. They can put £10/t on it and no-one notices. They can't put £1/t on ground lime, so don't bother with it. It's amazing how commission can form a salesmans "unbiassed" opinion.

50 kg is a waste of time. You might as well put it on with a salt shaker. 100kg would barely be worth the effort. Man has put large bilk amounts of lime on for thousands of years, dragging it across several counties with horse and cart. Would they do all that work if a sniff would do?

It's all rubbish and it mystifies me why anyone falls for it.

some farmers have strange ideas about lime, a rep once told me he can sell a artic load of fert easier than a ton of lime !

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I thought prilled lime was made from what we call 'hot' lime, that stuff that makes rainbow patterns on your windscreen, and burns your ankles if you get it down your boots? The same stuff they use for plastering etc, soluble so works quickly but soon washed out of the soil

No, it's just made from lime dust. To my knowledge, it's not even specifically ground up for the job. It's just waste dust from other industrial processes. That doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose though. If it were a form of "burnt" lime then it would be something very different, the claims may have some merit and it might be a bit quicker acting. There would, however, be a mass of H&S stuff attached to it because burnt lime is seriously nasty stuff.

The key thing to remember is that the small amount of prills put on will not work any better than the fine dust portion of an equivalent ground lime. It won't work any better because it can't work any better. It's exactly the same stuff.

Exmoor Dave, if there is no lime within 100 miles of your farm, then the balance of economics comes into play. It may well work out to use prills rather than bulk, but please remember to put enough on. The small amounts recommended are seldom enough to do the job and a downward spiral can soon leave soil lacking.

As I have said many times, prills work, but do your homework and test every year. IT WILL NOT LAST.