Grass loss to wild grazers?

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Sometimes the only solution is to change the questions.
If I saw all the wildlife at my neighbour's instead of here, I'd be asking myself what he's doing better than us!
Without boundaries hampering movement, wildlife are great indicators of health, just as "weeds" are.

surely this fella (or other) has the wildlife simply because he's left grass unstocked?
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Biggest downside we find with giving longer rest periods for grass is that we seem to be feeding more wild deer and geese than ever. Its particularly annoying at this time of year when the grass is just getting started and we're keeping in-lamb ewes on harder ground to let grass get a good start before lambing. I sometimes think I may as well just let the sheep overgraze it rather than the wildlife.
I'm curious to how others on here deal with, or just how they view this problem.

Isn't there a RSPB scheme that could reward you for feeding the geese? Pretty sure it's happening elsewhere. (Islay?)
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
surely this fella (or other) has the wildlife simply because he's left grass unstocked?
There's nothing for sure, larger deer especially tend to really have a great "feel" for what's in their range and follow select species through the season throughout their range. Even farmer's nice lush brassica crops only keep them a while and then they move off it, possibly they are instinctively fearful of predators (unlike many birds)

Smaller deer I don't know anything about as we have none (y) and a lot more space with zero people to hide the big buggers in
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
Bring back the wolf, take care of the deer and geese, that's the natural way , the sheep won't give you any more trouble either,
this is true, the re-introduced sea eagles (who can predate geese) are already helping reduce the sheep problem.
I should give up trying to produce food as there's a magical door at the back of the supermarket where food appears without without the need to manage the environment....
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
this is true, the re-introduced sea eagles (who can predate geese) are already helping reduce the sheep problem.
I should give up trying to produce food as there's a magical door at the back of the supermarket where food appears without without the need to manage the environment....
There would be very little at the supermarket if we all sold them nothing for 6 months.

The big problem with feeding the supermarkets is that effectively "our livestock" become the unwanted pests and nature's ones are treasured, because idiots buy their staples there.

All life is equal whether it's a dandelion or a bull elephant, and that's "the problem with us"
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
Maybe I should have written the original post from a different perspective.

With plenty folk trying to push Holistic grazing and to explain its benefits to all and when you read things stating 300% increase in production is possible I think it's important to be honest about problems faced.

Everybody loses a little production to wild grazing animals and nobody reasonable would object to having to coexist with local wildlife. But the fact is that if you try to manage the grass plants like they matter then you'll have a disproportionate share of the burden of wild grazers.

I'm not saying I want them all shot or that i want to be compensated by some higher power, My goal is to try and constantly improve my system and planning to maximise what I have. I'm merely trying to assess to what extent others face this issue, so that I can try and make more sense (and know what practices I can utilise) of some of the claims people are making as to how well holistic grazing is going for them.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Farmers around here used to park an old car in the field which was pretty effective when young lads were driving around shooting geese out of car windows. I am told a stuffed fox, or imitation one, will deter geese. Some dogs only need a little encouragement to chase them off and they can get quite keen on doing it. With deterring birds, the thing is to keep ringing the changes. As for deer, is it no longer legal for crofters to shoot marauders? Red deer used to be worth decent money.:)
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
Isn't there a RSPB scheme that could reward you for feeding the geese? Pretty sure it's happening elsewhere. (Islay?)
I'm pretty sure that the old Tir Cymen scheme had a class for new leys for swan grazing. It certainly worked, I counted over 200 swans on one block of newly seeded land belonging to a local dairy farm. I understood that the payment covered all the costs of a reseed.
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
Farmers around here used to park an old car in the field which was pretty effective when young lads were driving around shooting geese out of car windows. I am told a stuffed fox, or imitation one, will deter geese. Some dogs only need a little encouragement to chase them off and they can get quite keen on doing it. With deterring birds, the thing is to keep ringing the changes. As for deer, is it no longer legal for crofters to shoot marauders? Red deer used to be worth decent money.:)
We've got a psychotic collie at home who doesn't even tolerate hooded crows flying overhead, They sit high in the trees taunting him.
Our fields are spread across what i'd describe as the remains of crofting townships so our worst affected fields are about 3 miles from home.
I might give imitation fox a go... if it just keeps them away for 1 month i'd be happy.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
We've got a psychotic collie at home who doesn't even tolerate hooded crows flying overhead, They sit high in the trees taunting him.
Our fields are spread across what i'd describe as the remains of crofting townships so our worst affected fields are about 3 miles from home.
I might give imitation fox a go... if it just keeps them away for 1 month i'd be happy.

fibreglass imitation orca?
oh, thats for seals isn't it.....
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
That is a good point and one i'd not even thought of.
I was just going to ask the question, I wonder if geese eat the snail hosts of liver fluke? Wouldn’t surprise me if they did, which would be a slight bonus, but you don’t see them grazing the wet spots, just the good bits!

The geese are a menace, and I don’t think much of their ‘fertiliser’ inputs, the grass getting a chance to grow would be much more appreciated. Their constant mowing of young leaf must really be stunting the growth potential for the season/year.

I have to disagree with @Kiwi Pete here, he will not be ‘gaining heaps’ from the geese.
I agree with so much of the holistic outlook and approach to farming, but with all good things there is a risk of blind idealism.

There needs to be a degree of pragmatism retained.

Shooting them is most likely the most effective way of getting rid of them. You could maybe also trap a couple of mink and take them a short boat trip out to the uninhabited islands where the geese are nesting and increase the biodiversity there.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Seals haven't been taking much grass lately. I hardly even see them, they must be jumping over the fence and running away when they see me coming.
you're just being silly now.
As if seals could jump fences. they slip under like a badger, surely?
(sometimes, i believe they paint their little faces black and cammo, and escape in little inflatable boats)
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
I was just going to ask the question, I wonder if geese eat the snail hosts of liver fluke? Wouldn’t surprise me if they did, which would be a slight bonus, but you don’t see them grazing the wet spots, just the good bits!

The geese are a menace, and I don’t think much of their ‘fertiliser’ inputs, the grass getting a chance to grow would be much more appreciated. Their constant mowing of young leaf must really be stunting the growth potential for the season/year.

I have to disagree with @Kiwi Pete here, he will not be ‘gaining heaps’ from the geese.
I agree with so much of the holistic outlook and approach to farming, but with all good things there is a risk of blind idealism.

There needs to be a degree of pragmatism retained.

Shooting them is most likely the most effective way of getting rid of them. You could maybe also trap a couple of mink and take them a short boat trip out to the uninhabited islands where the geese are nesting and increase the biodiversity there.
You put my point across about geese stunting growth potential much better than I did. The losses are so much larger than just the actual dry matter removed. From last couple years observations I think they're setting the spring growth back by close to a month compared to a field that's had nothing touch it.
I do see geese digging holes with their beaks in wet mud and maybe snails is exactly what they're after.
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
you're just being silly now.
As if seals could jump fences. they slip under like a badger, surely?
(sometimes, i believe they paint their little faces black and cammo, and escape in little inflatable boats)
You're wrong, seals don't go near boats as they're not good swimmers.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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