Grass loss to wild grazers?

[Guleesh]

We think/hope so ! Its a big place, some are still employed trying to find any remnants. I started on the the first scheme about 20 yrs ago

I suppose if the hunt continues for a few more years, but i'd be surprised if there wasn't a few survivors, like the otters you never really see them but they're always there.

 

[Dry Rot]

I suppose if the hunt continues for a few more years, but i'd be surprised if there wasn't a few survivors, like the otters you never really see them but they're always there.

If it's grant aided, they will have left some to breed! ?

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

We have deer, hare and geese on the 80ac that I'm trying to farm and I take far more pleasure in seeing them then I feel aggravated by them eating the grass. It is definitely annoying and it won't make planting new trees as easy as it could be but I love that they are all over the place.

Will be putting in the biggest solar energiser we can buy shortly so 10kV should keep the deer off the most desirable parts, not sure it will do much for the geese though...

 

[Percy Veer]

[QUOTE="Percy Veer said:

It reminded me of the Boll Weevil song of my youth

Your youth must have been earlier than mine , never heard of them

 

[Blaithin]

Neither of us is doing anything "illegal" because no money is changing hands.

There are laws here that state no selling, gifting, trading or bartering.

Just because no money passes hands doesn’t mean it’s legal. Food safety can cast a wide net. In most circumstances you’d be fine but if somebody gets sick and decides to come after you over the food, you’ve got no legs to stand on. There’s no donation of anything here unless it’s gone through a licensed facility. Hanging in the garage doesn’t cut the mustard.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

There are laws here that state no selling, gifting, trading or bartering.

Just because no money passes hands doesn’t mean it’s legal. Food safety can cast a wide net. In most circumstances you’d be fine but if somebody gets sick and decides to come after you over the food, you’ve got no legs to stand on. There’s no donation of anything here unless it’s gone through a licensed facility. Hanging in the garage doesn’t cut the mustard.

It makes you wonder how we ever made it this far without laws and lawyers, eh?

 

[Dry Rot]

Unless the law has changed and the owner of the sporting rights has undertaken to control and compensate, an agricultural occupier has the right to shoot marauding deer and sell the venison in Scotland. No so sure about geese.

 

[A1an]

We have a Goose scheme here and those of us that belong to it are encouraged to shoot Greylags up to the end of April [discontinued this year due to covid 19]

any need for the scheme now?

 

[n.w]

any need for the scheme now?

Not really, I suppose the might be the odd crofter that would like them moved on, but numbers are right down compared to a few years ago.. TBH I love to see them about the place, theres been a few barnacle geese around and about 30 whooper..

 

[Gulli]

Weve had an outbreak of rabbits here, coinciding with getting a hawk in to clear up a few!

Not sure if the rabbits are trying to catch the hawk or what

The goats are currently grazing around them as there's so many. Dug up a nest yesterday while cleaning a ditch with 6 or 7 babies in which I relocated to the other side of the ditch.
Probably not helping myself, but I quite like seeing them, lots of hares about too.

 

[Crex]

any need for the scheme now?

There is most definitely the need for the scheme. Increasing goose numbers are having a serious impact on crofters grazing.

 

[A1an]

There is most definitely the need for the scheme. Increasing goose numbers are having a serious impact on crofters grazing.

Greylag geese are now on the General License so can be shot at any time, hence the question.

 

[Crex]

Greylag geese are now on the General License so can be shot at any time, hence the question.

Aye, it's not the legislation that's the problem, it's trying to keep on top of the expanding numbers, which is very difficult for the average crofter.

 

[JohnGalway]

I'm merely trying to assess to what extent others face this issue, so that I can try and make more sense (and know what practices I can utilise) of some of the claims people are making as to how well holistic grazing is going for them.

Currently doing Holistic Grazing module online. One thing sprang to mind, there are supposed to be two plans. One for the active grazing season, plus another for the non growing/slow growing/dormant season. Part of the latter is you plan for an overlap at the end of the dormant season known as a drought reserve, in the context of these islands that might well be to account for a late spring. You're basically rationing out known grazing reserves. In your situation it could be planning for what the geese and deer remove/damage early in the growing season.

That said, having my own flock locked up on hay and crystalyx in 50 acres so the rest of the farm can grow, I appreciate the ballache the geese and deer must be.

I think either try some suggestions on thread for moving them on or turning venison into € or goodwill. Or write the geese and deer into the plan as just something that happens.

I did laugh at the wolf suggestion, then pondered guided tours, then figured there mightn't be many tourists at that time of year, covid 19 aside.

 

[Guleesh]

Currently doing Holistic Grazing module online. One thing sprang to mind, there are supposed to be two plans. One for the active grazing system, plus another for the non growing/slow growing/dormant season. Part of the latter is you plan for an overlap at the end of the dormant season known as a drought reserve, in the context of these islands that might well be to account for a late spring. You're basically rationing out known grazing reserves. In your situation it could be planning for what the geese and deer remove/damage early in the growing season.

That said, having my own flock locked up on hay and crystalyx in 50 acres so the rest of the farm can grow, I appreciate the ballache the geese and deer must be.

I think either try some suggestions on thread for moving them on or turning venison into € or goodwill. Or write the geese and deer into the plan as just something that happens.

I did laugh at the wolf suggestion, then pondered guided tours, then figured there mightn't be many tourists at that time of year, covid 19 aside.

Yeah I think its all in the planning. the early spring is really the bottleneck of the whole grazing operation, and the main goal is to be able to bring ewes in a couple weeks earlier and shorten their winter hardship a little.
We used all the in-bye fields at tupping time in December and left what grass we could but I think the remaining cover was flattened too much and could have been left a little longer, already got a slightly amended plan for this year.
Hoping that the longer residual (Which will all be dead) might protect the young spring grass a little from the geese.
A little bit of chasing/shooting and a little adjustment in timings should take the edge of the problem.

 

[Mickeydredd]

The Red deer will quickly move on if you have someone in with a rifle when they start coming in, which is just before the season ends for hinds. They don't tend to stick around the same area when that disturbance is in play.
Think the geese will need more concentrated and regular shotgun disturbance.

 

[clod hopper]

1/3 for me, 1/3 for the wildlife, 1/3 for the plant and soil.

Whether they're eating the grass or using it as habitat, an increase in wildlife is on par with an increase in biodiversity and an increase in biodiversity means an increase in ecosystem resilience. You can't aim for increased biodiversity but think you're going to be able to leave out animal species.

Factually, most animals prefer different parts of plants and different kinds of plants which is why grazing animals can compliment one another so much. What one doesn't eat is what another will, etc. It's only when it's down to being overgrazed (or in drought instances) where their choices are taken from them that they become directly competitive. You may notice more animals on your land than others because that other land is overgrazed and therefore doesn't have the things those animals would regularly choose. As ecosystems balance out, populations disperse. Populations will also experience times of peaks and dips where they will seem overpopulated to you for a season or two but they will balance themselves out if left. When we step in to manage them is usually when they really go out of whack.

Here there is currently a brouhaha going about them pulling strychnine off the market to control gophers. "They're going to eat all our grass!!" say the producers. Do you know where gopher populations tend to absolutely explode? In overgrazed pasture where they can see as far as their eyes can see and can easily notice predators. If producers were to keep grasslands taller, the predators of the gophers - coyotes, fox, hawks, ravens - would have an easier time catching them and thus controlling the population. By overgrazing the pasture, gopher populations can explode and then they become an issue. (Coincidentally, this ease of catching more natural prey will directly decrease those predators pressuring livestock. Handy)

Go thank those geese for all the wonderful fertilizer they're supplying you for free.

It's not free if they are eating the feed your saving for a purpose which results in poorer production or even buy in feed.

 

[bendigeidfran]

Plenty of rabbits eating round the fields.
Heard somebody say that six rabbits can eat as much as a medium sized ewe

 

[Beekissed]

Across the pond we are using livestock guardian dog breeds in our grazing efforts, especially with the sheep. They keep them safe from all the predators but they also provide the added benefit of driving deer and wild turkey off any paddock they are currently in. Could be you need to integrate your own predators into your grazing system to keep the wild grazers in some manner of control....especially those with rabbits. That's GREAT dog food, as are the geese. It would sure give the dogs something to do while the sheep are being held in one area and not needing too much protection at that time.

I'm currently using Anatolian Shepherds but have used Akbash in the past, both great breeds.

We've also found we can keep deer out of crops, gardens and orchards with a single strand of hot wire, set about knee high to an average man. Build a bigger fence and they will jump it, but they will investigate that single wire and get zapped on the nose for their efforts. Works much like it does for livestock at that point.

 

[megan2103]

Hello thought I might be of help here, we are in south cumbria and offer a free local rabbit control service. provided your not over 20 miles away then we just as for a donation to the fuel cost. we use ferrets for our rabbit control helping control a few farms, golf courses and horse place as well as our own, using ferrets means we can move quickly and quietly not disturbing any livestock or the land. We can't promise that we will get all the rabbits but will make a big impact. I live on a farm so am completely aware of the countryside code. we use all the rabbits we catch for our dogs, ferrets and our selves. if we can help anyone out we will as we understand what damage rabbits can do. hope this helps you guys