Grass only farm feasibility

[Ukjay]

I'm curious about the Op, hence asked for a bit of background.

Several times we've witnessed posts from folk apparently out to further various anti-whatever agendas.

And when you believe what you - individually, and as an industry- do is waaaaay less damaging to the environs than what most of your detractors get up to (HS2 isn't being built to speed Farmer Giles on his way to market), the endless barrage of criticism is inevitable going to cause a jaded outlook.


I'd love the Op to come back and explain themselves a bit further, and happily 'debate' with them and others- see my discussion with the good DrW- if they're on the level.

I agree there are often hidden agendas to be found, as there is in a lot of situations in life, but we cannot simply expect to stay insular in our actions, and chastise / mock or riddicule others from different train of thoughts..
As to the OP, I am not able to say either way where they are on the hidden agenda etc - but the attacks are far too often cast out before seeking / finding full clarification as to the points raised, and as I stated earlier - the OP has maybe worded the point in a somewhat controversial manner which I would say didn't help, but as we are not all literary champions, they may (and as I am not able to say either way) or may not have been genuine in their questions.

 

[Cobbett]

Didn’t quite finish. So yes I am now going to bugger off so any remarks about me will need to be between yourselves as I won’t be back. I came on here for some genuine advice but most of you thought I knew nothing and would ruin the land. You do seem to be a very negative judgemental breed perhaps that’s why there is so much depression in the farming world. You are not the only ones with problems but I have witnessed stupid grudges held for years, if not generations that have destroyed families and broken up farms. Thank God I am only viewing at it as an impartial onlooker who is passionate about our ‘green and pleasant land’.

 

[ollie989898]

For those who are curious - no I am not a ‘real’ farmer so that’s me condemned immediately. However I have lived next to farms and farmers most of my life in both Devon and Sussex. Some farmers have been truly awful and downright neglectful of both their stock and their land while others have been wonderful, generous with advice and happy to help with shearing etc. We have run sheep, poultry, a few pigs and of course the dreaded horses. Cattle grazing our land have always belonged to other people. Our income and capital comes from elsewhere but that doesn’t make us out of touch.

Just for record of course we put things back on the land to keep in in good heart. We regularly test for and if necessary treat with lime. We fertilise with dried seaweed - expensive but so what we can afford. We have taken buttercup ridden pasture that also boasted hogweed, thistles and docks ploughed and reseed with mixed grasses. It now looks super and where our own sheep don’t do a proper job we have it top cut. We have certainly pulled our share of ragwort by hand. I only wish our ‘proper farmer’ neighbours did the same and top their b****** thistles - but hey what do I know I’m not a ‘real’ farmer.

The joke is I phoned the NFU to get some serious advice instead of just listening to the agent. I was told I would find out what I needed to know from this forum. She was right! I did find out what I needed to know. Not what I was expecting but far more useful and realistic. The academic side I can learn or research there is masses of info and help out there. But what I really learnt is how many farmers are self satisfied, intolerant of views other than their own, bitter, jealous, and set in their ways. Wow I thought the Horse & Hound forum can be unpleasant and judgemental at times but nothing like some of the posts I have read on here.

As for owning a farm just to make social chit chat some of the most boring and self satisfied guests at something like the hunt puppy shows were big land owners and ‘real farmers’. Some of my best friends have been people trying to make a go of a small farm without much money. They have often told me, in confidence, that their biggest critics and troublemakers were other farmers. Those I know who have more money and been able to outbid other farmers at land auctions etc. say they have been ostracised

So you started a thread and now admit that you were not being entirely truthful. Unsurprisingly, people got the whiff of it and were immediate cynics. What sort of response did you expect? The people here are largely salt of the Earth types who would help anyone. Instead, you came here with an agenda, assumed everyone else did too and then basically sought to deceive people and instigate some hostility and criticism and then scurry back off with your tail between your legs yet consoling yourself that we are all heartless morons who are close minded. Great work. In most circles that would constitute trolling.

Nobody is bitter or jealous on this forum, I can tell you that.

 

[Lazy Sod]

If @Cobbett has gone then that's the end of it. If he had given more information in his first post, then he would have received sensible advice a lot sooner.

 

[Ukjay]

This seems appropriate, from another thread.

An openly honest viewpoint, and one that shows a "Do as I say, not as I do" kind of approach, which is interesting.

 

[Cowabunga]

So you started a thread and now admit that you were not being entirely truthful. Unsurprisingly, people got the whiff of it and were immediate cynics. What sort of response did you expect? The people here are largely salt of the Earth types who would help anyone. Instead, you came here with an agenda, assumed everyone else did too and then basically sought to deceive people and instigate some hostility and criticism and then scurry back off with your tail between your legs yet consoling yourself that we are all heartless morons who are close minded. Great work. In most circles that would be constitute trolling.

Nobody is bitter or jealous on this forum, I can tell you that.

I suspect he expected a lot of straw-sucking yokels who do not have independent minds who would cow-tow to his grand scheme like a lot of yes-men. He has been disappointed and can't hack it. Not our problem.
Must say I saw through him from the start.

 

[Highland Mule]

An openly honest viewpoint, and one that shows a "Do as I say, not as I do" kind of approach, which is interesting.

Isn’t that what parenting is about? And who wouldn’t admit to doing stupid things from time to time, against our own better judgement?

 

[beefandsleep]

Thank you - someone finally gets it. I have discussed the project with the land agent at Strutt Parker, he thought it was a great idea and they would manage the whole project as they already are for many people like us. I did however profess doubts to him about the reaction of surrounding farmers. I have been proved right by the small minded patronising comments on here. Most farmers have very little interest in conservation unless they are rich and can do it as a ‘hobby’.

It’s not so much that they have little interest in conversation really, it’s more that they can not afford to have much of an interest. Consider this, many small sized farms, both owned and tenanted are barely profitable. Farms (similar to the size we are talking about here) that would have kept a large family well 50 years ago are now unviable.
So someone comes along with non farming money and a nostalgic rose tinted ideal of what farming and rural life ought to be, and buys that small farm next door. They can afford to manage the land according to their whims, unconcerned about having to pay rent/mortgage/put clothes on their kids backs. A little green eyed jealousy is probably to be expected.
Your ideas are noble, if I could I would downsize and do similar. Ignore what the neighbours think and crack on with your dream but don’t think your idea of putting it all in the hands of an agent and selling grass off the farm is going to create a wildlife utopia. If that’s what you want to create then run cattle, ideally a few suckler cows that will create the mixed height grazed habitat you should be aiming for and eat the low energy August wild flower hay you will make.
Good luck

 

[Ukjay]

Also running sheep over it during the winter helps clean everything up for a fresh start in the spring. Without the livestock input land that is just mowed constantly tends to favour certain coarse grass types over the finer ones, and slowly becomes a poor quality of sward.

The above is something we learnt through trial and error our previous property (basically partial ignorance to the value of adding livestock and obvious concerns with unscrupulous people claiming grandfather rights over land if you allowed them to graze for the whole year etc).
However, from our steep learning curve in the benefits, this is something we have done from the outset since coming to our new place.
We never charge for the grazing / water etc, as our gain is in the land improvement from the sheep grazing over what we would see from burning loads of fuel, plus wear and tare on the equipment simply mowing etc, so the benefit was seeing the land improve.

 

[Bald Rick]

Could be a multimillionaire with a few acres of grass ....

 

[DaveGrohl]

Well that was fun. I'd like further research though into the theory that there is huge depression within the farming industry brought about by negative judgemental breeding.

 

[Goweresque]

Taking a crop out of the land without replenishing the nutrients removed is a recipe for disaster. The sheep may maintain the nutrients they, themselves, remove, increasing the potash levels in particular, but no way do they replace what a crop of hay removes. Besides which I assume that your hay is taken off some time in June, which is ideal haymaking time, but not ideal for the aims of the OP I strongly suspect. He would probably prefer August hay which, with no stock on the ground early, will result in inedible and nutritionally useless hay for which the only market would be for burning at a power station or maybe as bedding one year in twenty.

I've only once made all my hay in June, that was 2018. Every other years some of the hay has been made in July and August, as the weather allows. Often not starting until July any way. Older grasses hold on better than modern leys do. A good proportion of my hay is made on fallow margins, so cannot be cut until after 30th June anyway, so always gets cut later. And still makes decent saleable hay.

My feeling is (with no great science to back it up I'll admit) that old permanent meadow grasses will produce pretty much nonstop at a certain level (the range of 1-2 tonnes per acre, average about 1.6/1.7) with very little in the way of artificial inputs beyond a bit of sheep muck in winter and a tickle of N in spring. Thats my experience and that of my father who farmed the same land since the 60s. Its the modern nutrient hungry leys that need to be fed constantly.

 

[sidjon]

Could be a multimillionaire with a few acres of grass ....

View attachment 905858

More profit in wild flowers

 

[egbert]

Didn’t quite finish. So yes I am now going to bugger off so any remarks about me will need to be between yourselves as I won’t be back. I came on here for some genuine advice but most of you thought I knew nothing and would ruin the land. You do seem to be a breed perhaps that’s why there is so much depression in the farming world. You are not the only ones with problems but I have witnessed stupid grudges held for years, if not generations that have destroyed families and broken up farms. Thank God I am only viewing at it as an impartial onlooker who is passionate about our ‘green and pleasant land’.

Well, thanks for stimulating some interesting discourse twixt some genuine members - and be aware that most of us get adept at sussing who is actually at the proverbial coal face.

I just reviewed your OP. and some early responses, and then your immediate outright blank criticism of 'modern farming methods' ....how insulting do you think that is?
You were given some very sensible comments, and taken as a spread of opinion within this forum, not treated too badly at all....in my opinion.
In fact, some of the most 'very negative judgemental' posting is your own, Maister.

I notice you still don't seem to have the cahoonies to say some more about yourself, so we have to presume we're being strung some kind of line.

If you want to make a comparison on polite discourse here, try going down the - socially distant- boozer and slinging muck at those at the bar come kick out.

If you're genuinely wanting help, you could try PMing some of the saner members here.
But, given the above, don't expect much sympathy for your apparent poor hurty feelings.

 

[Bald Rick]

More profit in wild flowers
View attachment 905874

Interestingly, the poppies of Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan tend to be multicoloured

All you need is a 4 pronged fork to score the seedhead so it bleeds and a spoon to scrape the resulting residue up

 

[egbert]

Interestingly, the poppies of Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan tend to be multicoloured

View attachment 905875

All you need is a 4 pronged fork to score the seedhead so it bleeds and a spoon to scrape the resulting residue up

New venture?
Labelled 'Menai Madman'?

 

[Bald Rick]

If you're genuinely wanting help, you could try PMing some of the saner members here.

Name and shame

** cojones**

 

[Bald Rick]

New venture?
Labelled 'Menai Madman'?

The old man brought back seeds and was happily growing them outside his house. Used to show the postman and anyone else who asked.
So long as you don’t pr*ck the head, should be ok?

Ffs .. didn’t write “plonker”. Think the leading TFF points scorer would be exempt from the filter. Sort it @Chris F ... please

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

The above is something we learnt through trial and error our previous property (basically partial ignorance to the value of adding livestock and obvious concerns with unscrupulous people claiming grandfather rights over land if you allowed them to graze for the whole year etc).
However, from our steep learning curve in the benefits, this is something we have done from the outset since coming to our new place.
We never charge for the grazing / water etc, as our gain is in the land improvement from the sheep grazing over what we would see from burning loads of fuel, plus wear and tare on the equipment simply mowing etc, so the benefit was seeing the land improve.

You should also be gaining goodwill and a community spirit by not charging.

 

[sidjon]

Interestingly, the poppies of Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan tend to be multicoloured

View attachment 905875

All you need is a 4 pronged fork to score the seedhead so it bleeds and a spoon to scrape the resulting residue up

White/blue poppy comes from Czech republic originally.