Grass Renovation thread

[Derrick Hughes]

Are you not getting confused about overseeding and direct drilling. In an overseeding situation diploids can be a bit slow to compete with the existing grasses but in a full reseed when you have taken out the old grass one way or another it will not matter what type of grass you use .

I won't argue with you as you have a lot more experience than me . But I've been told that if there is a lot of old grass about its risky at the best of times , I would have thougt you need grasses that establish quick. Or they are sitting there being hit by acid die back

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I dare say you yourself have used a grass overseed mixture containing Diploids in good conditions?

Two guys who are close friends of mine gave me 3 options when presented with a field with that much grass on . Sow Turnips . Get the grass off by mowing and baling by Mowing it to the deck , use an aggressive mix or walk away , thats 4 sorry . But I respect there are some on here who disagree and its hard looking at pictures and not standing in the field
The Forum will give conflicting views always had
You cant put a square peg in a round whole . Direct drilling is not one size fits all . Sometimes it just won't suit as much as we want it to

 

[hally]

I dare say you yourself have used a grass overseed mixture containing Diploids in good conditions?

No choice if you want a long term ley, tetraploid have their limitations too

 

[hally]

Two guys who are close friends of mine gave me 3 options when presented with a field with that much grass on . Sow Turnips . Get the grass off by mowing and baling by Mowing it to the deck , use an aggressive mix or walk away , thats 4 sorry . But I respect there are some on here who disagree and its hard looking at pictures and not standing in the field
The Forum will give conflicting views always had
You cant put a square peg in a round whole . Direct drilling is not one size fits all . Sometimes it just won't suit as much as we want it to

Your not wrong, I would be worried drilling into that much grass. If it was mine I would mow and bale it off but preferably spray it before it gets to that quantity.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No choice if you want a long term ley, tetraploid shave their limitations too[emoji12]

You do have choices though, the choice is you take a risk or drill in the spring after a break crop or mow it to the deck not try and graze it . Its always difficult when someone asks a question after the event, you don't want to sound like a smart arse or cause offence
My mate went to a field , farmer said I've mowed it . He said that aint mowing . He made him get the mower out of the shed mow it again and bale it

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Your not wrong, I would be worried drilling into that much grass. If it was mine I would mow and bale it off but preferably spray it before it gets to that quantity.

Thanks. Nice somone agrees at last [emoji2]

 

[Kevtherev]

I won't argue with you as you have a lot more experience than me . But I've been told that if there is a lot of old grass about its risky at the best of times , I would have thougt you need grasses that establish quick. Or they are sitting there being hit by acid die back

Depends as well what drill you use
Disc drills can cause ‘hair pinning’ in longer swards.

 

[onthehoof]

Anyone tried spraying with low dose glyphosate just to check existing sward but not kill it completely in case new seed doesn’t take

 

[Kevtherev]

Anyone tried spraying with low dose glyphosate just to check existing sward but not kill it completely in case new seed doesn’t take

It can be done yes with careful management of the existing grasses after.
Leatherjackets can be a pain though.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Anyone tried spraying with low dose glyphosate just to check existing sward but not kill it completely in case new seed doesn’t take

This is what my supplier said about it


The potential issue I could see in the future if this method was used widely would be a build up of resistant herbage to glyphosate.
Using low rate promotes this. Monsanto wouldn’t back it.

 

[som farmer]

an aussie agromonist, told us, 1 litre of r-up, for every year the ley had been down, and leave for at least 3 weeks, takes a bit of doing, but the result shows that advice works, even if not always done !
We have had some serious moisture deficiencies here, giving all sorts of unusual results, a odd one this year, a ley failed, and found to have some serious panning problems, even though we had done some sub soiling, so r-up, sub soiler through every 24 ins, and 16/18 ins deep, contractor then gave it a thick covering of slurry then ploughed, or tried to, still rock hard, this mean't, in the worst parts, the plough wasn't deep enough to bury the dead sward properly, the dead grass, didn't break up, and the maize, in those patches, struggled to get down through that layer, and the lime and fert, was still very obvious, 5 weeks after application ! The field directly above, still has rape germinating, in patches of dead soil, that was sown 28 april !!!!!

 

[ollie989898]

Follow the label for herbicides. Reduced rates are permitted in some situations. I personally would not use a reduced rate on a full blown grass ley.

 

[Top Tip.]

Anyone tried spraying with low dose glyphosate just to check existing sward but not kill it completely in case new seed doesn’t take

Quite common in NZ chemical topping I think they call it ,I’ve seen it done out there and I was impressed with the results.

 

[hally]

Anyone tried spraying with low dose glyphosate just to check existing sward but not kill it completely in case new seed doesn’t take

Done it many times but it’s surprising how small a roundup dose that can kill all the grass

 

[ollie989898]

I don't understand why you would want to spray something to 'hold it back' so you can put new seed in? Surely the reason you are putting new seed in is because the existing sward is carp and you want to be rid of it?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I don't understand why you would want to spray something to 'hold it back' so you can put new seed in? Surely the reason you are putting new seed in is because the existing sward is carp and you want to be rid of it?

Look at it like remaping a car . Early Mid term mixturs have some fantastic yielding tetraploids and Hybrids but dont last as long as the Diploads as we know, the ability to put back those Hybryds is a fantastic ability for a dairy farmer who wants to turbo boost his leys without taking them out for two long , but agree for an older useles sward that has nothing in it worth saving then get rid, it don't realy work in that situation anyway as it needs and open sward to get a chance

 

[ollie989898]

Look at it like remaping a car . Early Mid term mixturs have some fantastic yielding tetraploids and Hybrids but dont last as long as the Diploads as we know, the ability to put back those Hybryds is a fantastic ability for a dairy farmer who wants to turbo boost his leys without taking them out for two long , but agree for an older useles sward that has nothing in it worth saving then get rid, it don't realy work in that situation anyway as it needs and open sward to get a chance

The hybrids, if looked after will go 4 years if the right varieties are used. If a farmer is looking for high yields of quality silage, he can't go wrong. Expecting them to grow in and amongst a background of carp is no good.

Selling grass leys as being capable of 8 years or something is nonsensical given that the encroachment of weed grasses can happen in a far shorter period of time. I happened to drive by a field saw reseeded 5 years ago now and it was not done correctly at the time. If you could see a single ryegrass plant in there today I would be impressed.

Management of modern ryegrass leys is arguably more important than the methods and varieties used in reseeding. Abusing them or short cutting the job doesn't work.

 

[neilo]

Done it many times but it’s surprising how small a roundup dose that can kill all the grass

Isn't the rate used in NZ something like 100 ml/ha of Glyphosate? I'm pretty sure I remember @Global ovine posting a figure a few times. With my spraying prowess I'd be wondering about the overlaps getting double that, even if the rest was done accurately.

 

[som farmer]

Isn't the rate used in NZ something like 100 ml/ha of Glyphosate? I'm pretty sure I remember @Global ovine posting a figure a few times. With my spraying prowess I'd be wondering about the overlaps getting double that, even if the rest was done accurately.

when round up first came out, it was a 'magical' chemical, went on to revolutionize farming. I can remember the first 5 litres we bought, £72, the old man and his brother totally shocked at the price, saying it would never pay to use, and had to be used exceedingly carefully ! Us boys, got it down to 1/4 liter acre, mixed with fairy liquid, thinking back, sounds laughable, even the price, but, i do wonder, if the early stuff, was stronger than the present. Today, the younger generation, cannot see, how fantastic it was, its now a cheap 'throw' on chemical, and many will not even have come across couch grass !

 

[hally]

Isn't the rate used in NZ something like 100 ml/ha of Glyphosate? I'm pretty sure I remember @Global ovine posting a figure a few times. With my spraying prowess I'd be wondering about the overlaps getting double that, even if the rest was done accurately.

I think your right, even down to half a litre still seems to kill everything. I can’t help feeling though if it needs reseeding anyway what does it matter.