Grass stops BG

[warksfarmer]

Pictures say it all really. Where the drill hasn’t been there’s BG. Where it has there isn’t. No chemicals or fert used on this either.
Also no BG on the other side of the fence due to sheep grazing. Again no inorganic fert or BG herbicides used that side either.

 

[Manny]

I've cut 150 ac of grass on 3 different farm for a contractor in the last week and all the first year rye grass leys were full of the stuff.

 

[sticky]

My neighbours barley was full of it last year so he grassed it down and has grazed with sheep. They got it down and were taken off and when I drove past about ten days later and had a nose over the hedge all you could see was black grass in ear.

 

[ollie989898]

Grass can stop blackgrass but I have seen new leys swamped by the stuff.

I think it very much depends on the kind of grasses used, their growth habits and the seed rate and mix composition.

Grass is not a silver bullet that is infallible unfortunately. I wish it was but it can go very badly wrong. Blackgrass is only an annual so can be beaten in time but you need to maintain dense swards that are very very happy and growing angry to out-compete the blackgrass.

I believe that grass exhibits a degree of alleopathy between individuals the trick is ensuring that the entire field area is adequately covered with seed.

What mix of grasses were used in the situation shown in the OP?

 

[T Hectares]

Appropriate measures also stop BG

Untreated strips in a trial here...

 

[ollie989898]

I have question which is only partly related, but how bad does a blackgrass infestation have to become before growing cereals in that field is uneconomic? I have never seen a field that has got that bad you can see massive yield reductions but there has to be a threshold where it becomes uneconomic, particularly in view of the potential for seed return?

 

[teslacoils]

BG always looks worse when it starts to flower. Not that any BG is good. I have blackgrass. Some years it is good. Some bad. Often this is quite random. Varying degrees of loss in crops.

Spring oats, linseed suffer very little from even a moderate bg problem. Winter osr and barley also. Basically everything wheat likes, blackgrass likes. I'm grassing more down not to cure it, but simply as I'm sick of chasing my tail and the reduction in margin can be made up by selling kit and working off farm. Next year I will get round to that 24n weed wiper as the BG is a good 9 inches above the wheat canopy.

 

[ollie989898]

Looking at those photos and at the detail of the blackgrass plants the key to beating it has to lie in this physiology and life cycle. You don't see blackgrass growing at the road side or in permanent pasture. There has to be a way of controlling it's environment in a way that means it just can't survive long term. Chasing the dragon with chemicals has got us into this mess, the answer will be found only through some kind of shift in our thinking. You can see how the proximity of the other grass is causing a competition effect on the blackgrass plants on the edge of the strip- the centre plants are much taller than their fellows.

 

[HarryB97]

The first year of our grass leys are full of blackgrass and look dreadful and we take one early cut then they need topping every couple of weeks for 2-3 months because the blackgrass goes to head so quick. From year two onwards they are 99% clean and we get 2-3 silage cuts depending on what we require. We have a flock of sheep that graze them but the primary use is for silage for the beef cattle

 

[teslacoils]

To use grass to get on top of BG I strongly suggest not planting the grass after weedy wheat. After osr or barley fine. Or if after wheat work it in autumn and drill in spring.

 

[robs1]

IMVHO people are cutting too early, it needs cutting from now till about the 5 of June, if it doesn't have any set seed it will regrow, if it does but seed isn't viable then it will die after being cut but won't drop new viable seed. It's a bit like grazing a cereal if it has a seed in it it would not produce another one but if it hasn't even if the embryo is moving up the stem it will send another one up

 

[warksfarmer]

What mix of grasses were used in the situation shown in the OP?

That’s top secret info. Bit of a trial going on.

 

[Hampton]

Grass can stop blackgrass but I have seen new leys swamped by the stuff.

I think it very much depends on the kind of grasses used, their growth habits and the seed rate and mix composition.

Grass is not a silver bullet that is infallible unfortunately. I wish it was but it can go very badly wrong. Blackgrass is only an annual so can be beaten in time but you need to maintain dense swards that are very very happy and growing angry to out-compete the blackgrass.

I believe that grass exhibits a degree of alleopathy between individuals the trick is ensuring that the entire field area is adequately covered with seed.

What mix of grasses were used in the situation shown in the OP?

When the grass is sown is important too. If you plant a ley in September/October then chances are that blackgrass will just grow with it. Plant in the spring and it’s a different story

 

[Gong Farmer]

Those 'black-grass farmers' converting to organic reckon minimum three years in grass to get rid.

 

[Brisel]

Those 'black-grass farmers' converting to organic reckon minimum three years in grass to get rid.

3 years will get rid of the majority of viable seed, not all of it. I think plenty reimport fresh seed on machinery when they do come back in to rip it up!

 

[Mr Charisma]

I have question which is only partly related, but how bad does a blackgrass infestation have to become before growing cereals in that field is uneconomic? I have never seen a field that has got that bad you can see massive yield reductions but there has to be a threshold where it becomes uneconomic, particularly in view of the potential for seed return?

i have a neighbour who might only harvest 1.25 ton / acre of wheat because the BG just swamps the crop out .
he has had a 4 year ley down hoping to start getting on top of his BG problem , direct drilled wheat into sprayed of ley but he has had the same issue as we had last year and is looking at a crop of wheat which will struggle to do 2 ton , wheat has just struggled to put a root structure down

 

[Mr Charisma]

Those 'black-grass farmers' converting to organic reckon minimum three years in grass to get rid.

a nearby neighbour tried to go organic cereals , over 5 years he never took a crop as far as the combine , always flailing the crop off due to impending huge weed seed return

 

[yellow belly]

grass will swamp it out but needs cutting regularly

bg heads take more than 2 weeks to have viable seed
it is easy to test the seed by squeezing it between a thump amd fore finger nail to see if it is empty

I find cutting the patches in rape in the next 2 weeks then round up in mid july desiccation time does a 100 % job
with a reont mounted flail you only need to cut the black grass spraying patches always misses bits unless you use a napsak with food colouring to see where you miss